HL Deb 23 November 1972 vol 336 cc1036-9

3.8 p.m.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress has now been made in IATA discussions on the matter of an advance booking scheme for air travellers, by which individual members of the public, prepared to book three months in advance, may be able to reserve seats on scheduled flights anywhere; and if such a scheme, together with other cheaper flights, will be available as from April 1, 1973.

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY (THE EARL OF LIMERICK)

Limited progress, my Lords. I understand that it was proposed at a meeting last week of Presidents of IATA airlines that new low fares for individual passengers prepared to book in advance should be introduced on North Atlantic routes from April 1 next. Details have yet to be agreed within IATA and are subject to the approval of Governments. As the noble Baroness knows, for the United Kingdom the Civil Aviation Authority will need to consider and approve any such proposals before they can come into effect.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, would not the Minister agree that while the actual details for these new low scheduled fares have yet to be worked out, this is to be done at a special North Atlantic Tariffs Conference to be held early next month? While this is so, is it not also correct that a decision in principle has been taken that such fares shall be introduced? If that is correct, might I ask the Minister whether it would not be possible to have a similar tariffs conference dealing with European fares, so that such fares could be introduced in Europe as well as across the North Atlantic?

THE EARL OF LIMERICK

My Lords, to deal with the first question that the noble Baroness asked, the agreement remains subject to Government approval, as I said in my first reply. As regards the extension of these arrangements to Europe, this has to start somewhere. The negotiations are necessarily complex. The main abuses and the problems have been on the North Atlantic, and it is there that a start has been made. Within Europe special promotional fares are in existence—APEX and IPEX and the like—which cover an appreciable percentage of the traffic.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, I am sorry, but that answer is not satisfactory. While I appreciate that a start has to be made somewhere, would the noble Earl not agree that if the North Atlantic route is the place where such fares have to start (if it is agreed at the meeting which is to be held, I believe, on December 8 that such fares should be promulgated), it would be possible for similar discussions to take place with regard to Europe? Is the noble Earl aware that the fares such as he has mentioned are fares of a specialist type that do not apply to everybody? Is he further aware that I wish such low fares to be available to everybody in Europe who applies three months in advance?

THE EARL OF LIMERICK

My Lords, I am certainly aware of the last fact. The Civil Aviation Authority has encouraged British airlines to introduce matching facilities on their scheduled services on those routes where other carriers will be able to operate an advanced booking charter scheme, and the view of Her Majesty's Government on this subject, as expressed by the Prime Minister at the TATA annual general meeting, I think is well known. These are matters that are being discussed, and they are being discussed with a view to making progress.

LORD GEORGE-BROWN

My Lords, but what was not said by the Prime Minister, and is not said, is what is the view of Her Majesty's Government. Are they in favour, and thereby giving a lead, or are they just hiding behind this euphemistic phrase that it is open to all Goverments? May I press the noble Earl: what is the view of Her Majesty's Government?

THE EARL OF LIMERICK

My Lords, the view of the Government was given by the Prime Minister at the IATA meeting and it was quite unambiguous.

LORD GEORGE-BROWN

Yes, my Lords; but what was it?

THE EARL OF LIMERICK

My Lords, the Prime Minister said that he was in favour of these promotional schemes.

LORD GEORGE-BROWN

My Lords, I did not think that the Prime Minister said that, but would the noble Earl now assert from that Bench that the Prime Minister said that, so far as the British Government are concerned, we regard ourselves as committed to them?

THE EARL OF LIMERICK

My Lords, I think that the British Government, and indeed British airlines, have taken a lead in these matters. On the North Atlantic, it is B.O.A.C. and British Caledonian who have pressed for these new arrangements.

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, can the noble Earl really put the House out of its misery? A question was put in regard to Europe, but he now goes back to the North Atlantic. Will he be quite specific and reply to my noble friend's question, which clearly referred to Europe?

THE EARL OF LIMERICK

My Lords, in so far as I have been talking about the North Atlantic, that is specific to the North Atlantic. Other schemes have been put forward and will be discussed in relation to Europe. There is no immediate prospect of such a scheme coming into Europe; in Europe there are many other schemes.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, if the House will permit me, may I just ask the Minister whether the Government will press the airlines—because I think he is quite right in saying that they are in favour of such cheap fares—for the introduction of a European Fares Conference, immediately following the one to be held on December 8 concerning North Atlantic fares?

THE EARL OF LIMERICK

My Lords, I think that is another question, but I shall most certainly bring it to the attention of the Civil Aviation Authority.

LORD REIGATE

My Lords, will my noble friend accept that even if there is a slight ambivalence in the Government's attitude on this matter, there is no ambivalence in the minds of its supporters on these Benches or in another place?

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, can the noble Earl tell the House why he is not prepared to ask for another conference?

THE EARL OF LIMERICK

My Lords, that is a matter for the Civil Aviation Authority.