HL Deb 10 May 1972 vol 330 cc1022-3
BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is proposed to use special investigators in order to deprive men of their social benefits if they are living with women, other than their wives, who help support them.

THE MINISTER OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY (LORD ABERDARE)

My Lords, the cohabitation rule requires couples who are living together, though not married, to be treated in the same way in assessing supplementary benefit as those who are married; that is, their requirements and resources are aggregated. If a man is cohabiting with a woman whose means are sufficient to meet their joint supplementary benefit requirements, he is not entitled to benefit, any more than is a husband whose wife is able to support him. This situation arises rarely in practice and the use of special investigators is unlikely to be necessary.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords. I am very glad to hear from the noble Lord that there is no discrimination in the matter of immorality in the country. But can he tell the House how many times a lonely man or woman has to be visited by a member of the opposite sex before cohabitation is established?

LORD ABERDARE

No, my Lords. This is not an exact science.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, although the House is treating this matter lightly the fact is, as the noble Lord knows, that this practice is now being operated in the country. I think that these unfortunate women—because it is chiefly women who are affected, although I have heard today that men can be concerned—should now be told exactly what the position is. I understand that these men and women do not necessarily have to be living in the same household. It could be reported that a woman had the same male visitor on many occasions, and from that it could be deduced that she was cohabiting. Is that not a fact?

Lord ABERDARE

No, my Lords, that is not a fact. These would be merely casual visits. This is a very delicate and difficult subject; but there is a very good Report on it, if the noble Baroness cares to look at it, called Cohabitation, published last year by the Supplementary Benefits Commission.

Baroness SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I was once a Minister, that we examined the whole question of cohabitation and these delicate details, and that we came to the conclusion that it would be futile, expensive and totally unrewarding to follow the policy which the Government are following to-day?

Lord ABERDARE

Yes, my Lords. But I think a great many people take the opposite view: that it would be quite wrong to allow abuse of these regulations which involve the use of public money. I think that most of the cases which are examined are looked at in a way which is not offensive and results in no waste of public money.