HL Deb 10 May 1972 vol 330 cc1017-9

2.51 p.m.

LORD ORR-EWING

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government who will represent the Government at the meeting of Ministers responsible for aerospace in Europe when future European projects are to be determined.

THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD DRUMALBYN)

My Lords, I presume that my noble friend is referring to the informal meeting of the European Space Conference that is to take place next week to be followed by a formal meeting later. The Minister for Aerospace will represent the Government.

LORD ORR-EWING

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the following major Ministries have an interest in scientific and application space satellites: the Ministry of Defence, the Foreign and Commonwealth Ministry, Education and Science, the D.T.I., Posts and Telegraphs, and also the Environment? The Select Committee on Science and Technology, in a Report published more than six months ago, strongly recommended that a space agency on the lines of our French and German competitors should be set up in this country. Surely until we have an integrated national policy at home we shall continue to get rather poor value for money and lose ground to our French and German rivals. In view of the tremendous importance of space, cannot we agree, in view of the forthcoming conferences, that we might jointly share in a space launching capability so that we are not utterly dependent on the good will of the U.S.S.R. or the U.S.A. henceforward for this capability?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, the recommendation of the Select Committee on Science and Technology for a space agency is still being examined. In the meantime my honourable friend is representing the Government at these negotiations, and the purpose of the meeting is to take stock of the position reached so far in Europe's consideration of its response to the United States offer of participation.

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that although there has been much good work recently, it certainly has been the impression that the French and German representatives are in a stronger position by virtue of the unified administrations in their respective countries? Will the noble Lord give an assurance that at the formal meeting in July we shall be in a position to take a strong line with regard to European participation?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I am aware of the different organisation in France and Germany compared with that in this country. We each have to form for ourselves the most suitable organisation to meet the needs of the occasion. So far as the policy is concerned, this will be a matter for further consideration in the light of what comes out of the informal meeting and in view of the very important meeting that is to come later.

LORD DERWENT

My Lords, is the Minister taking to the informal meeting advisers only from his own Department or from the various Departments concerned?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I imagine that he will take advisers from a very wide range of Departments. This is the usual practice.

LORD WYNNE-JONES

My Lords, is it the intention of the Government to reconsider its attitude with regard to ELDO when the Minister goes to take part in the Conference? Because, as I am sure the noble Lord is aware, there is great consternation among the French and others about our withdrawal from the European launching. It is extremely important to be able to put up satellites for communications and for meteorological purposes.

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I have a suspicion that that is a question that will be raised at the Conference, though it is not actually the main matter on the agenda of the Conference. We shall have to see what comes out of the discussions.

LORD ORR-EWING

My Lords, would my noble friend remember that while six major Ministries continue to have a finger in this pie, the Treasury will continue on their long and historical process of dividing and ruling, and this could be very detrimental to our long-term interests?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, my noble friend will be well aware from his experience that the Treasury is itself ruled.

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, the noble Lord said that Her Majesty's Government were now considering the Report of the Select Committee. Can he say when it is expected that a decision will be taken?

LORD DRUMALBYN

No, my Lords, I am afraid I am not in a position to say that.

LORD SLATER

My Lords, could the Minister state which Minister will be representing the Government? Will it be the Minister of Technology or the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, it is the Minister for Aerospace, Mr. Heseltine.