§ 2.41 p.m.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the Post Office consulted them before instituting a horoscope service for telephone subscribers in the Birmingham area; and whether they can 940 say for what other branches of superstition and witchcraft the Post Office intends to cater.]
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, a decision on whether to market a particular telephone service or facility is a management function of the Post Office, which is responsible for the day-to-day running of the telecommunications services. The Post Office is not required to consult my right honourable friend the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications before it adds to its telephone information services.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, is it sane for Her Majesty's Government to spend millions of pounds on public education to spread knowledge and truth, and at the same time to allow the Post Office to institute a service to increase gullibility and foster superstition?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, as I have said, Her Majesty's Government have no responsibility here: it is a matter for the Post Office. The Post Office no doubt takes into account the fact that certain telephone lines are idle at certain times. It may therefore think it is going to earn a certain amount of money in this way.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, is the Minister aware that Lord Cones-ford's horoscope, as published in Old Moore's Almanack says, "Romance is likely"? Does not the publication of such a warning constitute a very valuable service?
THE LORD BISHOP OF SOUTHWARKMy Lords, is the Minister aware that, as one who is interested in psychical research, I had my horoscope cast only last Friday? Is he also aware that I was informed by the person casting the horoscope that it was essential for me to give the place and date of my birth? Is the Minister further aware that when I did not give those facts to another person who cast a horoscope, I, a bachelor, was told that I was a married man with three children?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, I was not aware of any of those interesting facts. I have no doubt that the right reverend Prelate spent a good deal more on that horoscope than a local subscriber in Birmingham, who would have to spend only 2p on his call.
§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGERMy Lords, in all seriousness, I appreciate 941 that Her Majesty's Government cannot dictate to the Post Office on this matter; but is it not possible for some representation to be made informally? Are there no limits? If the Post Office allows a person to obtain indecent information by telephoning a suitable number will no representations be made by Her Majesty's Government?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, I have no doubt that the Post Office will take account of everything that has been said in your Lordships' House. But I think that your Lordships are taking this matter too seriously. Many people get a great deal of fun from reading their horoscopes in the newspapers. This is obviously something that was taken into account by the Post Office when it inaugurated this service. If people took horoscopes deadly seriously it would be another matter.
§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORDMy Lords, as there is a surplus of chickens, may I ask my noble friend whether he would ask the Post Office if they would care to use the entrails of chickens in order to widen the scope of their prognostications?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, I am afraid that, too, would be a matter for the day-to-day running of the Post Office. But I have no doubt, knowing the expertise of my noble friend in certain ways, that the Post Office will take this into account when it considers his question.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, does my noble friend see no difference between having a fortune-teller's booth at a funfair and what was once a reputable part of the Government indulging in the spread of superstition?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, this may have once been a reputable part of the Government—and I am sure that it is still reputable—but it is no longer part of the Government. My noble friend will realise that the Post Office also runs a service where you can dial to hear a bedtime story—perhaps the Government would not tell bedtime stories; in fact, I am sure that they do not—but my noble friend would not complain about that.
§ LORD IRONSIDEMy Lords, would my noble friend say whether the horoscope service is linked in any way at all to the Post Office weather forecasting service?
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord seriously whether, in view of the information that we have had in the Press that the postal service is deteriorating, he would think it his duty to advise the Post Office to attend to this matter rather than to this other nonsense?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, the noble Baroness is asking a serious question. The Press have been suggesting that the letter services have been deteriorating. Possibly other people may be dissatisfied with the telephone service. This is a case where there are certain service lines free at night. The Post Office is looking around for something that is going to be of interest to the public and will bring in a little extra money. Surely the noble Baroness would not consider that the attempt by the Post Office to bring in more money is bad.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, may I ask a supplementary question? In view of the fact that 50 per cent. of the beds in our hospitals are filled with people suffering from some mental disability, should we encourage this kind of service?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, if the noble Baroness were to listen to the "Starline forecast"—and this she could do by dialling the appropriate number in Birmingham—she would find that it is not quite so serious a matter as she thought and not liable to lead to any mental instability.
§ LORD FOOTMy Lords, can the noble Lord tell the House whether there is any intention on the part of the Post Office to set up a service to forecast the performance of racehorses and, if that is the lease, whether any decision has been made as to what the service should be called? May I ask the Minister whether he has given consideration to naming it, First Past the Post Office" or, or, possibly, "The Winning Post"?
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, may I ask a final question since I am most anxious not to misunderstand my noble friend's Answer? Do Her Majesty's Government consider that there is any service at all too disreputable for the Post Office to adopt?
§ LORD DENHAMMy Lords, if there were any service that was thought to be disreputable my right honourable friend 943 would advise the Post Office when he thought it was going beyond the bounds of propriety in this matter. But really, my Lords, I feel that my noble friend is taking this matter a little too seriously.
§ VISCOUNT DILHORNEMy Lords, is one to assume that the Government do not think this service too disreputable?
§ LORD DENHAMNo, my Lords; Her Majesty's Government have no opinion on this because it is a matter for the day-to-day running of the Post Office. If any service was thought to be disreputable they would certainly have an opinion—and a very strong one—on the subject.
§ LORD SEGALMy Lords, would Her Majesty's Government urge the Post Office to confine this type of information to the Birmingham area?
§ LORD DENHAMNo, my Lords.
§ LORD DAVIES OF LEEKThank God! I can sell them broomsticks!