LIVESTOCK AND LIVESTOCK PRODUCTS INDUSTRIES (PAYMENTS FOR SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH) ORDER 1972 (Hansard, 14 March 1972)

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, I had thought that your Lordships might require an explanation of this Order, but I think that possibly it might be to the general convenience of your Lordships' House if this explanation were kept to an absolute minimum. I therefore beg to move formally that the Order be approved.

§ LORD CHAMPION
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Earl on the brevity of his speech: it is very seldom we get that when a Motion of this sort is being moved. But there are just two questions I should like to ask. Has the noble Earl any information as to how the money which has been allocated previously has in fact been spent, and what are the results of that expenditure? After all, the money that we are talking about here is pretty considerable; and since 1967, when the Act was passed by the Labour Government, considerable progress has, I hope, been made by the Agricultural Research Council. The second question that I should like to ask is: has any particular project been earmarked for the future? I do not know whether the noble Earl has this information on the 422 brief that he has before him—I hope he has; but if he has not, perhaps the "pigeon post" will get working pretty smartly, and we may have it. I do not see any move by the "pigeon" who happens to be sitting by him, so I take it for granted that there is no immediate prospect of an answer. That being so, I think we might approve this Order and hope that the noble Earl will write to me afterwards giving me the information which I seek in this connection.

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, I do not quite know how to answer the noble Lord, because he has asked a few questions and then proceeded to answer them for himself. All I would say to him is that the purpose of this Order is to provide funds which will in due course enable research, and so forth, in connection with the meat industry to continue by the operation of the Meat Research Institute. Various funds have been made available to the Meat Research Institute during the course of the last few years and your Lordships will be aware that this Order allows an increase only for the next 12 months, because during the next 12 months the whole method of funding this particular Institute is going to be reconsidered in the light of, for instance, the Rothschild Report, and everything. This is therefore an Order which will provide only for 12 months' worth of work, and at the end of that period your Lordships will be informed of the method by which the Institute will be funded in future.
There are no details of specific projects that are earmarked for work in the near future. The noble Lord, Lord Champion, will be aware that the original idea was that half the funding of this particular Institute should come out of the industry and half should be provided by the Government. This is the intention. In fact, over the previous few years this has 423 not happened; but the increase in funds which is being allowed for under this particular Order will go some way towards meeting that particular point.

§ LORD CHAMPION
My Lords, this is not a Committee stage, of course, and therefore I cannot speak again except to ask a question; but I think the House is entitled to know the answer to my question. After all, the House is asked to sanction the expenditure of money, some of it public and some of it provided by the industry itself. I should have thought we could expect to have from the noble Earl, and from the Government, an explanation of how the money has been spent in the past, what has been the result of it and what this money is likely to be spent on—are any projects specially earmarked, and so on. This is really what I was after, and in the circumstances I should have thought that was quite a reasonable request.

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, of course the noble Lord is quite right to want to know how the money has been spent. In fact, it is spent by the Meat Research Institute, and the job of that Institute is, if I may give an example, to determine the effects of the freezing of meat—the effects of quick freezing it and of slower freezing; the effect that that has on the tissues of meat, and so forth. This is one of the projects undertaken by the Meat Research Institute. As the noble Lord will appreciate, the Meat Research Institute is an autonomous body whose job is to do research into meat. A large part of its funds is provided by the Government and part of them by contributions from the meat industry. The method of extracting this money from the industry has changed recently, as the noble Lord will know. It used to be extracted by way of the fatstock guarantees. I shall be more than pleased to give the noble Lord details, should he require them; and if this meets with the approval of noble Lords I shall be happy to write him and give precise details of what work has been done and what work has been envisaged.

LORD NUNBURNHOLME
My Lords, before the noble Earl sits down, can he tell us how much money has been 424 allocated by the Government and how much by the meat industry?

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, current expenditure of the Meat Research Institute has been, in round figures: in 1968–69, £308,000; in 1970–71, £464,000. That does not include capital expenditure. The contribution from the Meat and Livestock Commission in the first year to which I referred—which was in fact a six-month period—was £98,000; and in the year 1970–71, £197,000.