§ VISCOUNT HANWORTHMy Lords I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government why they have made no use of Sections 7 and 8 of the 1968 Trade Descriptions Act for making definition and marking orders on consumer goods.
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY (THE EARL OF LIMERICK)My Lords, the proper bases on which we can make orders under Sections 7 and 8 of the Trade Descriptions Act are that to do so would be in the interest of consumers or, in the case of Section 7, of exporters. The great majority of the proposals so far made to us for such orders have not come from consumers but from organisations representing manufacturers or traders. Most have been rejected as unnecessary, unenforceable, outside the scope of the powers or unlikely to offer sufficient benefit to consumers to warrant compulsion. Some proposals are, however, still under consideration, and my right honourable friend intends to make very shortly an order requiring imported eggs to bear an indication of the country of origin.
§ VISCOUNT HANWORTHMy Lords, while thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him whether he realises that at least eight products have been recommended for marking orders, and these have been put forward by consumer organisations—some of them shortly after the introduction of the Bill? Secondly, may I ask the Minister whether 568 he thinks that one reason why no marking orders have been produced is that there is an inadequate staff in his Department for taking on this work?
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKMy Lords, I am indeed aware that some of these proposals have come from consumer organisations. Some of them are already under study, and if the noble Viscount has questions about any particular instance I shall be glad to go into details with him. As regards the staffing, this is a matter which is currently under investigation.
§ BARONESS GAITSKELLMy Lords, may I ask the Minister how we can get educated consumers if we are not given the information and description asked for in this Act? If the Americans can have this information, why cannot we be as well informed as American consumers?
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKMy Lords, the criteria on which the Secretary of State can make these orders were clearly laid down in the 1968 Act. It has been the case that, with the one exception I have mentioned, these criteria have not yet been fulfilled in any of the applications.
§ VISCOUNT HANWORTHMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he agrees that after the Act had been introduced the policy of Her Majesty's then Government was to introduce compulsory marking orders where it was important for the consumer to have extra information and where voluntary means of producing it did not show results? Further, may I ask whether the Minister is aware that had some marking orders been introduced on some important items while the Teltag scheme was in being, it would have greatly helped that scheme and would no doubt have survived the demise of the Consumer Council?
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKMy Lords, I can only repeat that the criteria as laid down in the 1968 Act have not yet been fulfilled in respect of any of these applications.
§ BARONESS PHILLIPSMy Lords, can the Minister tell us when we shall be having some laws which will make life a little easier for the consumer, as was promised in the gracious Speech?
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKMy Lords, the noble Baroness will be aware that there are several such matters under consideration, including the Crowther Report which we shall be debating on Wednesday.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, the gracious Speech referred to legislation for this year. Could the noble Earl now answer the question put by my noble friend?
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKMy Lords, I think that the question of specific dates for specific measures is really another Question.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, the point was that the gracious Speech deals with legislation for this year, and therefore my noble friend asked that particular question. Clearly, from the noble Earl's reply there is to be no legislation this year to protect the consumer.
§ VISCOUNT HANWORTHMy Lords, would the Minister perhaps consider introducing a definition order to define what is meant by "soon" or "next year"?
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKMy Lords, that may be considered.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he could confirm that since the negotiations or discussions on this subject took place the United States have introduced legislation requiring marking orders to be put on all imported goods, giving the country of origin? Secondly, could the noble Earl give some elucidation of how the interests of consumers are not substantially covered by the interests of manufacturers—or the other way round, if he prefers to put it that way? It would seem that the interests of both are very largely common, and yet emphasis is put on the consumer, disregarding the manufacturer.
§ THE EARL OF LIMERICKMy Lords, the United States' experience is certainly being looked at. As regards the second supplementary question, I think there may be, and indeed are, cases—perhaps the majority—where the interests of the consumer and the manufacturer are quite distinct from each other.
VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDSMy Lords, can the Minister confirm that the Govern- 570 ment are very happy that they do not have to mark the content on pound notes?