§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, in view of their responsibility concerning United Kingdom policy and international air service agreements, they will themselves recommend to B.E.A. that scheduled seats on the airline, in addition to being used for B.E.A. package tour business, are also make available to normal scheduled travellers at a similar reduction; or, alternatively, whether they will request B.E.A. to discuss the matter with the Civil Aviation Authority with a view to introducing individual excursion fares throughout Europe.
EARL FERRERSNo, my Lords. It is the responsibility of the airlines to negotiate individual fares and fare structures, which are then subject to the approval of the Civil Aviation Authority. It would accordingly be undesirable for Her Majesty's Government to intervene in this respect and to usurp one of the functions for which the Civil Aviation Authority was set up. However, the Government, with the co-operation of the Civil Aviation Authority, are playing a very active part in discussion with other countries on proposals which are specifically designed to enable airlines to make lower fares (to which the noble Baroness refers) available to a wider public.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, I thank the noble Earl. The second part of the Answer is much better than the first part. May I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that we are all glad that B.E.A. is doing so well in 368 the British charter business? Is he also aware that the airline is using its scheduled seats for this purpose? May I take it from his Answer that the noble Earl agrees that the time has now come when individual scheduled travellers should take some share in such reductions?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I am always apprehensive of agreeing with the noble Baroness, Lady Burton of Coventry, when she asks can she "take it from my reply". The answer is that this very point is being discussed, but, as she knows, there must be reciprocal arrangements between one country and another. It is this that is, up to a point, causing the hold-up. But I would assure her that British airlines are most progressive in trying to get lower air fares.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, I am glad the noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, qualified with "up to a point". May I ask him whether he recalls that the Government, the British Civil Aviation Authority and the airlines are at last publicly on record as stating that it is better to fly with full occupancy than with empty seats? This being the case, would it not seem desirable, in spite of what the noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, has just said, for B.E.A. to insist on individual excursion fares throughout Europe? Does he recall that when B.O.A.C. insisted on certain fares to Australia they won the day?
EARL FERRERSMy Lords, I entirely agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Burton of Coventry, that it is much better to fly with a full complement than with empty seats, but it is also important that the airlines should make a profit; hence the reason that one has to have a rather complicated structure to allow scheduled air services to operate and at the same time to enable airlines to make a profit.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, is the noble Earl, Lord Ferrers, not aware that obviously the air-lines financial viability is much greater if they have full occupancy, even with i people not paying full fares, than if they have empty seats?