§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what is the relative cost of a refit of the Rothesay Class frigates at the four Royal Home Dockyards, and the estimated cost of a similar refit at Gibraltar Dockyard.
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIF)My Lords, it is not the normal practice to disclose the costs of refitting Her Majesty's ships.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, I was about to thank my noble friend, in view of her charm and wisdom, for taking a close interest in the affairs of Gibraltar, but in this case I must say that I am rather disappointed. May I ask my noble friend, in view of the principle of Her Majesty's Government to sustain and support Gibraltar, if she could say whether there is a higher cost involved in refitting a Rothesay Class frigate in Gibraltar? Would such an increased expenditure be due to wage claims that are now pending or to the lack of tools or equipment?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I am sorry that I cannot entirely satisfy my noble friend, but it is difficult to give true comparative costs, partly because of the varying state of ships and also because of the overall workload in a particular yard. As to the expenditure required on a Rothesay Class refit, it would in fact be necessary 164 to spend something on new plant; and of course there are also at the moment certain wage claims pending.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, can the noble Baroness say why it is improper to disclose the cost of refitting a frigate? Is it because it would cost too much or too little? Is the noble Baroness aware that a Select Committe of the other place can always obtain the information?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, the noble Lord will no doubt recall that I said in my original reply, that it is not the normal practice to disclose the cost; and I tried to explain that it is difficult to give true comparative costs because of the different workloads of different yards and because of the different state of ships.
§ LORD STRATHCLYDEMy Lords, could my noble friend say whether it would be cheaper to refit a ship in one of the naval dockyards at home or in Gibraltar?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, I think my noble friend is trying to ask the original Question. So far as we have any information on the future, I think one could say that to refit a modern frigate would not be any cheaper in Gibraltar.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lords, then may I ask my noble friend whether, if a Rothesay type frigate was refitted in Gibraltar, apart from H.M.S. "Whitby", would it detrimentally affect the workers in the dockyards at Portsmouth, Devon-port, Chatham and Rosyth?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, in answer to my noble friend's question, may I just say it would not affect detrimentally the work of these four home ports.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, while admiring the skill of the noble Baroness, now that she has answered the question asked by her noble friend Lord Strathclyde about the cost of a new frigate being refitted, could she now answer a question about an old frigate?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, perhaps I could say that such information as is available would not incline us to say that it would be any cheaper in Gibraltar.
§ LORD SHEPHERDBut, my Lords, is it not also a matter of providing employment in Gibraltar and giving the people of that Island a feeling that this country is willing to sustain them, despite some rumours to the contrary that have been circulating in Gibraltar?
§ BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIEMy Lords, the noble Lord is perfectly correct; and indeed we have given an undertaking always to support the people of Gibraltar. But on this particular matter my noble friend the Secretary of State for Defence is hoping to make a decision shortly.