§ LORD DAVIES OF LEEKMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the new Regional Water Authorities, in taking over the responsibilities of the British Waterways Board for canals and navigation, will modify the uninspiring suggestion that our canal system can no longer fulfil a major transport function; and whether they are aware that the E.E.C. waterways are regarded as an essential part of Europe's transport structure.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, it is the Government's intention that the proposed Regional Water Authorities shall have the same statutory duty to maintain the country's commercial waterways as the British Waterways Board now has. Her Majesty's Government are aware of the role in transport of waterways on the Continent, and intend that commercial water transport in Britain should be developed where this might be justified.
§ LORD DAVIES OF LEEKMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that Answer, may I ask him whether the Government will keep their eyes on this Waterways Board, which appears to regard canals as places for sewage and as sources of water? Are the Government aware that Europe does not look on its canals as quaint relics of the past? Has the noble Lord seen a cogent article in this month's Consulting Engineer—I recommend a reading of it—pointing out the potentialities of canals for taking some transport off the roads of Britain? I sincerely hope that these canals will be considered constructively in future.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I think Her Majesty's Government not only made it clear in the White Paper that canals were to be used for water supply, drainage and sewerage, but said that their amenity value and commercial aspects would be kept in mind. It must be remembered that we have 12,000 miles of railway and 200,000 miles of road, but only 340 miles of commercial waterways. So the ratio is low.
§ LORD DAVIES OF LEEKMy Lords, are the Government aware that it costs about £440,000 to fill in a stretch of canal, while improving the same length would cost about £180,000? I should like the regional waterways people to consider that fact before deciding on closure.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I have not heard of any plans to close down any waterways. The Government are looking at several plans which have been passed by the Waterways Board, and there may be some information forthcoming shortly. On the question of water transport in general, I would remind the House and the noble Lord that some 17 per cent. of the inland transport of this country is carried by coastal shipping. Unlike the Continent, we have very easy access to ports.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the impression he has given is that, because there are only 340 miles of inland waterways, it does not matter whether or not they are used? Will he do something to correct such impression?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I willingly accept what the noble Lord says about the inland waterways. They are most important, and we are willing to look at any schemes to develop them. I was merely pointing out that at the moment they are carrying in mileage tonnage only 0.1 per cent. of our inland transport. So that even if we were to double that figure it would only be one-fifth of 1 per cent.
VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDSMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the word "maintain", which he seems to clutch to his heart, is perfectly inadequate for the situation? The words ought to be "enlarge and develop". Is the noble Lord aware that this is being done very thoroughly on the Continent, to their great advantage, and that it is not being done in this country, to our great disadvantage, largely because of the doubts, hesitations and lack of policy which are inflicted on the unfortunate waterways due to Her Majesty's Government's failure to make up their minds what is to happen next?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I cannot accept the last statement made by the noble Lord. I have only just realised, while looking through my brief to-day, that we are looking at proposals which have been put to us for a £2.4 million improvement scheme. This is an improvement. With regard to the Continent, they have the deep waterways of the Rhine and Danube, and it is very economical to link these large inland rivers more commercially than we can.
VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDSMy Lords, the Rhine is not a deep waterway; it is shallower than many of our canals.
§ BARONESS WOOTTON OF ABINGERMy Lords, will the noble Lord have in mind, when he is thinking of priorities, that although there is a much lower mileage of canals, they have a value for recreation with which the roads and the railways cannot possibly compete?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONYes, my Lords. The noble Baroness is quite right. As well as these commercial waterways, we have 1,100 miles of very good cruising waterways, which also we hope to see improved.
LORD INGLEWOODMy Lords, can I ask my noble friend whether, taking the canal system in this country as a whole, the recreational interest to which the noble Baroness has just referred is really more important than the commercial interest?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I do not want to draw a parallel as to which is the more important. We regard them both as important.
§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that his reply to-day marks a slight advance on what we were told in this House last December, and that those who are interested in this are grateful on that account? Is he also aware that there is a dangerous heresy that has crept into his brief; namely, drawing an analogy between our coastal shipping and the possibility of inland water transport, inasmuch as coastal shipping is the more cumbersome and less flexible, and inland 229 water transport, thanks to new technologies, can be integrated with that in Europe?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I take completely the point that my noble friend is making.
§ LORD FERRIERMy Lords, is my noble friend aware—
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I have a feeling that we might well have a day on canals, but until then I think that we might paddle clown the next watercourse.