§ 3.14 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF KINNOULLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government why there is so great a delay in authorising the sale of surplus land held by the British Railways Board.
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT (LORD SANDFORD)My Lords, the Board are free to sell their surplus land without Government authority. They have sold more than 40,000 acres since 1964—over £36 million worth in the past three years. The Board are aware of the need to dispose of their surplus land with all due despatch, not only in their own interest but also in the interest of the nation's economy and the nation's environment.
§ THE EARL OF KINNOULLMy Lords, I am grateful for my noble friend's informative reply. May I ask him first, whether the land which is still due to be released in London is likely to make a fruitful contribution to solving London's housing problem? Secondly, so far as the countryside is concerned, may I ask whether there are any special schemes in relation to land due to be released?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, British Rail have released about 800 acres to the G.L.C. and to the London boroughs in the last eight years. They are currently engaged in a special survey under the auspices of the London Housing Action Group, established by my right honourable friend the Minister for Housing and Construction, and in the last five months, in discussion with the London 1508 boroughs, have identified an additional 150 acres of potential land suitable for housing. Noble Lords will be aware that a new policy for the disposal of railway lines in the countryside has been in force since September, 1971, and I will send the noble Earl a copy of the circular.
§ LORD BERNSTEINMy Lords, will the noble Lord ask Her Majesty's Government to publish a list of properties not being used by British Rail, and state the Board's reasons for retaining them? It is only by an exposure of that kind that the point made by the noble Earl will be dealt with in the proper perspective of to-day's needs.
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, I will certainly consider that point, and get in touch with the noble Lord.
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, will the Government keep in mind the necessity for retaining some of this land, which they seem to be under pressure to sell at this time? Quite clearly, they will eventually have to lay down fresh lines on this land to relieve congestion on our roads.
§ LORD POPPLEWELLMy Lords, in view of the great interest in this matter, may I ask the noble Lord whether, instead of supplying only his noble friend with the particulars referred to, he will circulate them in the OFFICIAL REPORT, so that more of us may have full knowledge of what is taking place? Also, will the noble Lord give an assurance that no pressure will be put upon British Rail to sell land other than to local authorities, until local authorities have been able to plan fully their future use of this land?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, if I may answer the noble Lord, Lord Popplewell, first, I would say that although it is true that the Board are free to dispose of their surplus land, they are not themselves free to have it developed, nor is anybody else free to develop it outside the normal planning controls, and they are subject to the usual office development permits. I am conscious of what the two noble Lords opposite want from the Department, but at this stage I would rather say no more than that I will certainly consider the suggestion, 1509 and will see the scale of the operation required in order to furnish full particulars. In the light of what I am able to do, one or other of the noble Lords may consider putting down a further Question when I have indicated what information is available.
§ LORD BURNTWOODMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that, on a some-what more modest scale, there are still within the ownership of the railways many miles of old forgotten tracks from which metal lines have been removed and which, in many cases, could not be used for normal road communications, but which could be used as an amenity for people who like to enjoy the countryside, and like to go through areas of the country that are difficult to get to by normal roads and pathways?
§ LORD SANDFORDYes, my Lords. It was with that purpose very much in mind that the procedure set out in the circular to which I referred in answer to my noble friend was devised.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, in view of the fact that this land is in public ownership, is it desirable for it to be transferred to private ownership and not kept in public ownership, even if in some other field of endeavour?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, I think that question raises wider and different issues, which I shall certainly be ready to deal with if the noble Baroness will put down a Question.
§ LORD BERNSTEINMy Lords, I am sure it would help your Lordships' House if the particulars referred to earlier by the noble Lord, Lord Sandford, would state exactly what land was sold, what land was sold for agriculture, for private development and what land has been sold, or is arranged to be sold, to local authorities.
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, I have undertaken to consider the suggestion, but there is a very considerable amount of land and an enormous amount of work will be involved in obtaining full details. These details are not available in the Department at the moment, because what we are concerned with is land belonging to a nationalised industry. But I will certainly look into the matter and will get in touch with the noble Lord.