DESALINATION: BUCKLESHAM PROJECT (Hansard, 27 January 1972)

§ LORD BROCKWAY
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT (LORD SANDFORD)
My Lords, this project was being carried out by Simon Engineering Limited, in conjunction with the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority and the Water Resources Board. As Simon Engineering no longer consider the process envisaged at Bucklesham to be commercially viable, and as the estimated cost of the project had risen by about £1 million over the estimate made when Government participation was agreed, my right honourable friend decided, in agreement with the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, that it would not he right to continue the project, with the whole cost falling on public funds. He is however supporting further work on this process in order to get the maximum value out of the development already done; and he is always prepared to consider assistance to the development of other desalination processes that are potentially efficient and economic. My right honourable friend is considering the possibility of working with European countries to obtain a breakthrough in desalination, and has had preliminary discussions earlier this week with the French Government.

§ LORD BROCKWAY
My Lords, while thanking the Minister for that very detailed reply, may I ask him this question? Was not the original development from a laboratory to a plant endorsed by the Water Resources Board and the Atomic Energy Authority, with the approval of the Department of the Environment, and is not the significance of this much more than just the commercial value to a private company? Is not its significance in the contribution which it makes towards converting sea water into plain water?

§ LORD SANDFORD
Yes, my Lords; the noble Lord is correct. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State announced as recently as March, 1971, that this experimental project was to go ahead. But for the reasons which I gave in my Answer he has now decided that it should be terminated in the way I described.

§ LORD BROCKWAY
My Lords, while appreciating that the Government are still showing interest, may I ask this question? Is not this process of freezing sea water and getting the crystals of pure water a much cheaper process than the present plant in this area; would it not give a very great advantage in the export market; and, most important of all, would it not enable an advance to be made in watering the deserts of the world in order to make them fertile land, to deal with the problem of food supplies with an increased world population?

§ LORD SANDFORD
My Lords, the technology is basically sound, but Simon Engineering clearly have no great hopes of the commercial prospects of the process.

§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORD
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, although Simon Engineering may not foresee immediate commercial benefit from this experiment, it is nevertheless essential for the future economy of this country that we should make progress in the process of desalination? Is my noble friend also aware that, possibly not in this decade but almost certainly before the end of the next decade, it will be necessary to use desalination for part of our fresh water supply? Will my noble friend therefore give an undertaking that he will ask my right honourable friend 413 the Secretary of State to give further consideration to this matter, and mount a fresh experiment and a really comprehensive piece of research into the best method of desalination?

§ LORD SANDFORD
My Lords, if my noble friend will study the last part of my original reply, I think he will see that I have already given that assurance.

§ LORD BESWICK:
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that he does not appear to be sufficiently enthusiastic, shall I say, about the enormous potential that there is in this process? Is it not at any rate possible that Simon Engineering were not looking at this in a sufficiently broad and deep way, and that the Goverment's resources ought to be behind this work? Can the noble Lord give a further assurance that there will be no lack of funds for the essential work to go ahead?

§ LORD SANDFORD
My Lords, I was asked a question about this particular pilot project and I have given a reason for the decision. This does not imply that we have lost all interest in desalination as a process, and I should have thought that the last part of my Answer made that abundantly clear.

§ LORD AVEBURY:
My Lords, to make this matter absolutely plain, will the noble Lord confirm that the Government had been giving support to three processes of desalination, the other two being reverse osmosis and multi-stage flash distillation, and that the support given by the Department of Trade and Industry and the Atomic Energy Authority to the companies which are engaged in the other two of these is continuing at its previous level? Also, will the noble Lord agree that this example indicates that the customer, in Lord Rothschild's definition, is not always right?

§ LORD SANDFORD
My Lords, I prefer not to answer that question, because further research into this matter is really something for my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for the Department of Trade and Industry; and also because there is a Question on the Order Paper for next Monday, dealing with this very point.

LORD INGLEWOOD:
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he can assure the House that, before deciding that they would not go ahead with this project at Bucklesham, the Government made inquiries as to whether there was another engineering company in this country capable of doing work like this, which might have been willing to carry on? Simon Engineering is surely not the only one which is capable.

§ LORD SANDFORD
My Lords, I think I would need notice of that question.

§ LORD LEATHERLAND
My Lords, have the Government borne in mind that the Simon Engineering Company has recently struck a rather unhappy patch financially, and that this might be the reason why they do not want to encumber themselves with something which does not show any immediate prospects of profit? Is that not a reason why the Government themselves should take over the responsibility for research and development of what could be a really promising and big profit-earning undertaking in the long run?

§ LORD SANDFORD
I can only repeat, my Lords, that we remain convinced that the technology here is basically sound. The project is not economically viable, and Simon Engineering withdrew for that reason. For the reason given in my original Answer, we have not thought it right that the whole of the cost of this project should fall on public funds at this stage.

§ LORD IRONSIDE:
My Lords, arising out of my noble friend's Answer, may I ask him whether he could give more detail about the prospect, which he referred to, of working with the French Government?

§ LORD SANDFORD
No, my Lords, not at this stage.

VISCOUNT MONCK:
My Lords, would my noble friend agree that there is a large body of opinion which believes that desalination is the main answer to the esential problem—I repeat, the essential problem—of doubling the supply of water in the United Kingdom in the next thirty years? Would my noble friend also agree that, as the present cost of desalination is at least six times that of 415 treating water by normal methods, this belief is erroneous, and that bulk supply by desalination can only be a very long-term project?

§ LORD SANDFORD
Yes, my Lords, I would absolutely agree with that without precisely endorsing the differential between the cost of supplying water by desalination and that of supplying water by conventional methods. But it is four or five time more expensive, and the prospects of bulk supply by desalination are certainly very far distant. Nevertheless, as my noble friend Lord Nugent of Guildford has said, there is scope for the conjunctive use of desalination with other forms of supply.

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (EARL JELLICOE)
My Lords, it is quite clear from the supplementary questions that your Lordships have a great thirst for this particular subject. I should have thought that the thirst was so great that the matter might well be worth a debate —possibly on an Unstarred Question. But it is now 3.16 p.m., and we are still on our first Question. I think most of your Lordships now feel that it is time we moved on to our second Question.

§ LORD SHACKLETON
My Lords, perhaps I may say that I entirely agree with the noble Earl: this is a very suitable subject for a mini-debate, which I hope we may have. If I may say so, the discussion this afternoon exposes the danger of a Minister trying to be as helpful as the noble Lord in giving so much information. None the less, I hope that he will not be discouraged from doing so in future.