HL Deb 25 January 1972 vol 327 cc267-70

2.45 p.m

LORD PLATT

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are now ready to report the results of the inter-departmental discussions on "all the implications of the 2nd Report of the Royal College of Physicians on Smoking and Health" which the Prime Minister (in a Written Answer) on February 2, 1971, said were "being urgently pursued ".]

THE MINISTER OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY (LORD ABERDARE)

My Lords, the Government have not yet reached conclusions on the results of the interdepartmental study

LORD PLATT

My Lords, while thanking the Minister for that extremely unsatisfactory reply, may I ask, first of all, what the Prime Minister's definition of "urgently" is, and, secondly, whether the Secretary of State's words on April 30: When we have completed that study we shall announce what further needs to be done are still to be taken as relevant?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, indeed the matters have been urgently pursued, but I am sure that the noble Lord will understand that interdepartmental discussions on a matter as complicated as this do take some time. The discussions are now complete, and we are reviewing what our policies will be in the light of those discussions

LORD DAVIES or LEEK

My Lords, this is a crie-de-cæur from one of those who has had a battle against smoking. If, as a result of the publicity, millions of people stop smoking and, like myself, put on nearly three stone in weight, will the noble Lord see that the Ministry of Health establish some clinics for old boys like myself who have had a hell of a struggle to get the three stone off again?

LORD AMULREE

My Lords, would it not be possible now for Her Majesty's Government to encourage local authorities to prohibit smoking in places of public entertainment such as theatres and cinemas?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, the noble Lord may be aware that one chain of cinemas has started a fairly considerable experiment in just this matter of no smoking in cinemas

BARONESS SEROTA

My Lords, while I appreciate that interdepartmental discussions are always inclined to be lengthy and somewhat cumbersome, nevertheless this is a matter of grave public concern, and I would ask the noble Lord whether he can tell us when the Government are likely to make their pronouncement on the report which we now understand they are already considering

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I cannot go further than I have: that we hope to make some announcement when we have decided what our policy shall be in the light of the discussions. All I can say to the noble Baroness is that I think that we have already shown considerably greater activity than any other Government in pressing forward with the campaign against smoking

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he would agree that the word "urgently" is inappropriate and that it might be better to substitute "at a stroke" for it?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I certainly would not agree with that

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, where are the complications the noble Lord refers to, in view of the fact that the Royal College of Physicians reported 18 months ago and all his medical advisers support these recommendations? Nothing could be simpler. Will he tell us where the complications are?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I think that the noble Baroness knows perfectly well where the complications are.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

No. my Lords, I do not. That is why I am asking

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, these are very difficult matters. They involve fiscal considerations; they involve an interference with people's liberty and they involve advertising. There is a host of difficulties.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, in view of that reply, may I ask why it is that the noble Lord is sympathetic to the pressures of the tobacco manufacturers but not to the wisdom of the Royal College of Physicians?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I do not think that emerges from my answers at all. All I am trying to say is that there are many complicated matters of policy to be discussed before we come to an answer.

VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDS

My Lords, will the noble Lord consider doing something of a particularly early nature relating to smoking by the young? In the case of some of my noble friends it may well be too late, but in the case of the young it is never too early.

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, the cinema advertising campaign which is now starting is directed particularly at the young. Also, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education will shortly issue a pamphlet for schools to give education about smoking

LORD AIREDALE

My Lords, when the inter-departmental discussions come to an end and the review is made, how long will it be before the Government's policy can he announced?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, the interdepartmental discussions are completed

LORD AIREDALE

My Lords, when were they completed? How long ago?

LORD ABERDARE

A matter of a few months ago, my Lords—just before Christmas

LORD PLATT

My Lords, even if the Government are not ready to make a complete statement on this subject, may I ask whether the Secretary of State has yet come to any conclusion about a subject to which he referred on April 23 last, when he said that he would see … whether there is a case for banning or controlling vending machines which are exclusively available to children".—[OFFICIAL REPORT, Commons, 23/4/71; col. 1589.] That does not strike me as a very difficult matter about which to make up one's mind

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, this is being considered as part of the review.