HL Deb 16 February 1972 vol 328 cc146-8

2.34 p.m.

LORD THOMAS

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have any information as to whether the new traffic philosophy in the streets of London and other large cities is speeding up or slowing down the average block to block speed of vehicles; and whether the practice of sterilising large areas of expensively laid roadway is proving a help or a hindrance to (a) wheeled and (b) pedestrian traffic.]

LORD SANDFORD

My Lords, traffic surveys have shown that in Central London there has been an increase in the speed of journeys since 1958. Generally in other cities there has been little change in journey speeds, although traffic flow has increased. How far these facts ate attributable to positive traffic management measures, such as the creation of bus lanes, and how further improvements could be achieved are matters which Her Majesty's Government have under current examination. There is no evidence so far of any significant effects for pedestrians.

LORD THOMAS

My Lords, I am indeed grateful to the noble Lord for that thoughtful and informative reply. Is the Minister aware that from the motorist's point of view there is little point in cruising at 70 miles per hour along a motorway and then in an urban or suburban area sitting in the car fuming, both mechanically and mentally, in a traffic crawl at a snail's pace because of unintegrated traffic signals, tangles at roundabouts, poor lane planning and other obstructions?

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (EARL JELLICOE)

My Lords, before my noble friend replies—and I speak in all deference to him—may I remind him and the House that our Procedure Committee deplored, and the House endorsed its deploring, the habit of reading prepared supplementary questions. I apologise to my noble friend for bringing it to his attention.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, I understood the noble Lord to say that traffic flow had increased since 1958. Is it not true that for those of us who work in Central London the traffic flow has decreased considerably in the last year or so?

LORD SANDFORD

My Lords, that does not correspond with my advice. The case with which motorists can proceed may well not have increased. That is because by the introduction of bus lanes we are trying to give priority to buses, which of course carry more people more easily than cars.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, I am speaking as a bus user, and I think the service has got a lot worse.

VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDS

My Lords, may I ask the Government whether they will take into consideration the magnificent opportunity now presented to them by the present power cuts to study what some professional users of the roads are reporting, and that is that the non-use of a number of traffic lights is actually speeding up the traffic? Will they use this opportunity to study which traffic lights could be abolished?

LORD RAGLAN

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, by and large, speeding up the traffic in towns by the removal of obstructions such as parked cars makes the place more uninhabitable for pedestrians?

LORD SANDFORD

My Lords, all these things have to be balanced.

LORD SEGAL

My Lords, has the Minister noticed that where private ears are concerned the rules about lanes confined to buses are frequently more honoured in the breach than in the observance?

LORD SANDFORD

My Lords, I have noticed that this is sometimes true.

LORD THOMAS

My Lords, is the Minister aware that I can accept the rebuke about reading supplementary questions; but now, off the cuff, may I ask whether he is aware of the frightful tangle due to sterilisation of expensive made-up roadways in the Dover Street, Hay Hill and Berkeley Square region, entirely due to man-made bottlenecks?

LORD SANDFORD

My Lords, I am not personally aware of that. The provision of bus lanes is of advantage to passengers travelling by bus, but of course it does not directly assist in solving the problem of the motorist.

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, are there any bottlenecks that are not man-made?