HL Deb 20 December 1972 vol 337 cc1088-92

3.2 p.m.

EARL JELLICOE rose to move that a Select Committee be appointed to consider procedures for scrutiny of proposals for European Community instruments; and that the Lords following be named of the Committee:—

That the Committee have power—

  1. (a) to adjourn from place to place; and
  2. (b) to report from time to time;

That the evidence taken before the Committee be printed but no copies be delivered out except to members of the Committee and to such other persons as the Committee shall think fit, until further order;

That the Committee have power to confer with any Committee appointed by the Commons to consider the same matter.

The noble Earl said: My Lords, I beg to move the second Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper. Your Lordships will recall that in February last my right honourable friend the then Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster suggested the setting up of an ad hoc committee to consider procedures for the scrutiny of draft Community legislation. I had hoped—and I have expressed this hope more than once to your Lordships' House—that this would be a Joint Committee of both Houses of Parliament since it seems to me right that the machinery evolved for this important function should be closely articulated between the two Houses. I am afraid that this exercise in" jointery" has not proved possible and, I am therefore proposing to your Lordships a Select Committee for your Lordships' House to do for this House the work which a similar Committee will be doing for another place.

As your Lordships will see from the terms of reference, the Commons Committee and the Lords Committee, if this Motion is approved, will have powers to confer if thought desirable. Again, I would only express the thought that this seems to me highly desirable. I think that we all realise that this is a very important area from the point of view of Parliament, and it is one certainly to which noble Lords in all quarters of your Lordships' House in our long discussions on the European Communities Act attached great importance, whether or not they happened to be in favour of that legislation. It is obviously most desirable that suitable and efficient procedures should be evolved as quickly as possible, so that your Lordships' House and, indeed Parliament as a whole, should be able to probe, examine and influence decisions or proposals emanating from the various European institutions. I hope very much that this Motion will be acceptable to the House and that the Select Committee, if established, will be able to get down to work quickly and will be able to complete its task at the earliest possible moment.

I should like to say, in hopeful anticipation that your Lordships will approve this Motion, how very grateful I am to those noble Lords who have agreed to serve on this Committee, and not least to the noble Lord, Lord Maybray-King, whom it is suggested should be its Chairman. He will bring to its work an intimate experience of the procedures of both Houses of Parliament. My Lords, I beg to move.

Moved, That a Select Committee be appointed to consider procedures for scrutiny of proposals for European Community instruments: and that the Lords following be named of the Committee:—

That the Committee have power—

  1. (a) to adjourn from place to place; and
  2. (b) to report from time to time;

That the evidence taken before the Committee be printed but no copies be delivered out except to members of the Committee and to such other persons as the Committee shall think fit, until further order;

That the Committee have power to confer with any Committee appointed by the Commons to consider the same matter.—(Earl Jellicoe.)

3.5 p.m.

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, I must apologise for not having been here at the beginning, but having only just emerged from hospital, where I have been for the last three days, I have not myself participated in this awkward business of selecting names for Committees. My last shot before retiring was to suggest to my noble friend Lord Beswick that he himself might care to serve on this Committee. However, it is a very onerous task they are undertaking and it is essentially concerned with procedures, not with what is to be done with the various Instruments.

My noble friend Lord Beswick, having precise regard to the purpose of this Committee, quite clearly invited certain of my noble colleagues who were very experienced in the procedures of the House. I take it that the reason for the names as they appear are that the individual Peers themselves are actively involved in the workings of procedure. I do stress to my noble friend, in view of his remarks, that my noble friend Lord Beswick—who, as has been pointed out, is not a noted pro-Marketeer—has had regard to the purposes of the Committee: this is the matter with which this House should be most concerned.

LORD BLYTON

My Lords, I hope it is not assumed that those of us who are anti-Common Marketeers themselves do not understand the procedure of either the other place or this place. The fact is that none of the anti-Common Marketeers has even been asked if he would serve. I must be quite honest: it seems that there is a clique that wants to keep the anti-Common Marketeers out of things and deal with the whole situation without any opposition inside any committees that are set up. That is what I am resentful about.

THE EARL OF LAUDERDALE

My Lords, may I make one brief point? First of all, I am much honoured to be invited to serve on this Committee and I have reason to be grateful for the courtesy of the Leader of the House and my Leader in that respect. I am honoured not least to sit under the chairmanship of the noble Lord, Lord Maybray-King. I have no special knowledge of procedures and no special qualifications. I submit myself to the judgment of the House. I saw the Committee's terms of reference only this morning and I should like to reserve comment on them for when I move my Amendment to the next Motion which stands on the Order Paper.

LORD ROBBINS

My Lords, as a matter of historical interest, would the noble Earl the Leader of the House reveal a little more of the reason why on this particular matter it seems not possible to constitute what seems a priori to be desirable—namely, a Joint Committee of both Houses?

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, I hope I am not revealing any indelicate truths by saying that it was the wish of the Government that this should have been a Joint Select Committee.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

The Question is, that the said Motion be agreed to. As many as are of that opinion will say" Content".

SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS

Content !

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

To the contrary," Not-Content".

LORD BLYTON

Not-content!

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

I think the Contents have it.

NOBLE LORDS

Not Content!

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

Clear the Bar!

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, I have to acquaint the House that Tellers for the Not-Contents have not been appointed, pursuant to Standing Order No. 51. A Division, therefore, cannot take place. I declare that the Contents have it.

On Question, Motion agreed to.