§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what decisions were arrived at as a result of the North Atlantic tariffs conference held earlier this month concerning the new class of cheap fare to be available on scheduled air services across the North Atlantic from April 1 next; and what period of validity will be offered.
§ THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD DRUMALBYN)None, my Lords. My latest information is that the conference has broken down. No doubt the United Kingdom airlines will be reporting the full position to the Civil Aviation Authority as soon as possible.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, is the Minister aware that because of this and the resultant open market in air fares across the North Atlantic we can shortly be expecting a new cheap rate to be offered by British Caledonian and B.O.A.C., and that this will involve advance bookings? Will the Government support such a recommendation?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, this was of course largely what the whole conference was about and B.O.A.C. and British Caledonian gave the fullest support to these proposals.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, the Minister keeps turning my questions round and giving me poor answers. I asked him whether, should B.O.A.C. and British Caledonian put 746 forward such a proposal, the Government would support them.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, it is for B.O.A.C. and British Caledonian to make proposals to the Civil Aviation Authority in the first place. It is for them to submit the structure of fares, both standard, if I may call them such, and promotional, and it would be quite wrong for me to anticipate what the Government would do in any given circumstances.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, is it not true that IATA has forfeited its fare-making machinery in this recent failure and that this has now passed to Governments? If the Civil Aviation Authority support such a recommendation will the Government as a last step support it, too?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNYes, my Lords. I am trying to make it clear that the Government and our airlines have been very much in favour of doing this all along, and we will do our best to get it.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, is the noble Lord, Lord Drumalbyn, aware that he would have helped the House in the speed of conducting to-day's long business if he had said that at the beginning?
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMay I ask one more supplementary question, my Lords? As the IATA members have said that they will hold a conference in the summer to discuss an entirely new fares structure, may I ask the noble Lord to say whether the Government will support a recommendation by our own airlines that the European fares structure shall be included therein?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, we dealt with this particular matter on Tuesday when I tried to explain that these arrangements were kept separate from the North American and mid-Atlantic routes. I thought I made it clear that it is very unlikely that it will be possible to reach any kind of agreement at that time, but that should it be possible the Government will then continue to support the policy that we have been trying to get accepted, which is of course for these cheaper fares.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords—
§ SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Oh!
§ BARONESS BURTON or COVENTRYIt is the Minister and not I who is making this questioning necessary. Is the noble Lord aware that I am not talking about a conference to discuss North Atlantic routes? I am discussing a conference which the airlines have said they will call in the summer to discuss a revised fare structure for all routes. Will the Government support a recommendation that the European region should be included therein?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, the trouble is that it is extremely difficult to answer the noble Baroness's question because she is not asking quite the right one. She surely must know that the conference is of IATA and that the Government do not come into IATA, either supporting or opposing. We believe that our airlines will press very strongly for this and we hope that agreement will be reached.
§ LORD TREFGARNEMy Lords, is it not a fact that the breakdown of the IATA conference on North Atlantic fares will lead to a competitive situation on the North Atlantic routes and, further, will result in lower fares? Is not that what the noble Baroness, Lady Burton of Coventry, wants?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNOne would imagine that would be so, my Lords; but the extent to which fares can be reduced is of course limited by the fact that the airlines have to make profits.
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, in view of what the noble Lord, Lord Drumalbyn, said about my noble friend Lady Burton asking the wrong question, may I ask whether he considers it to be within his ingenuity to draft the sort of question that would enable my noble friend to get the answer she desires?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, it might be a good idea if I drafted the question and the noble Baroness gave the answer.