HL Deb 12 December 1972 vol 337 cc560-4

7.2 p.m.

LORD WINDLESHAM rose to move, That the Draft Local Government (Postponement of Elections and Reorganisation) (Northern Ireland) Order 1972, laid before the House on November 28, be approved. The noble Lord said: My Lords, I beg to move the fourth Order standing in my name in the Order Paper. I did not speak again on the last Order, because it is perhaps in the interests of the House that we should move on. I hope that the explanations are not too detailed. I have made an effort to keep them reasonably short, but as the noble Lord, Lord Garnsworthy, said, we owe it to the House and to the people in Northern Ireland, to whom these Orders are extremely important, to give an explanation of why they are being brought forward and why Parliament is being asked to approve them to-day.

The purpose of the draft Local Government (Postponement of Elections and Reorganisation) (Northern Ireland) Order 1972, is really contained in its name: it I is to give effect to the decision of the; Secretary of State to postpone the local government elections for the new district councils from a date in 1972 until 1973, and to deal with the consequential effects of that decision. Noble Lords will know that the local government elections had been fixed for December 6, 1972, which was the last convenient date if the new local authorities were to function properly from April 1, 1973, the date set in the original scheme for the reorganisation of local government in Northern Ireland.

However, very strong representations were made to the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland by the political Parties, and by many other responsible organisations, to the effect that the local government elections should be postponed, and my right honourable friend decided that the best and wisest course was to put off these elections until the spring of 1973, when a date would be fixed.

The postponement of the local elections means that the regionalisation of the major services—education, health and welfare, roads, planning, water and sewerage and the centralisation of rating—must wait until after the councils are elected. The administration of the social services will be vested in boards made up in part of representatives of the new district councils, and until the councils are in existence and able to nominate their representatives the boards will be unable to function effectively. Moreover, the new councils must be able, right from the start, to determine their own policy and their budgets, and October 1, 1973, represents the earliest date after the elections by which they could consider and prepare estimates for their operation during the remainder of the financial year. Accordingly, the existing system of local government will continue until October 1, 1973—that is, six months later than had originally been planned—with services being provided as at present and existing rating authorities levying and collecting rates for this period. Services will be reorganised as from October 1, when the district councils assume their functions and area boards and Northern Ireland Departments become responsible for regional services. As there may not be time before April 1, 1973, for existing rating authorities to prepare estimates of expenditure for a six-month period, the Order will enable my right honourable friend the Secretary of State to prescribe a formula by which rate poundages will be determined. There has been consultation with representatives of local government about the need for this power which is sought with their agreement.

There are, however, a number of services which were to be reorganised on April 1 and which are not dependent on the election of district councils. We have agreed that where these changes do not involve substantial financial, staffing or accommodation problems, it would be right for them to go ahead. The main changes I have in mind are the creation of a unified electricity authority; the transfer to the Ministry of Home Affairs of complete responsibility for the payment of criminal injury compensation; the merger of the Belfast Corporation Transport Department and Ulsterbus; the transfer of road safety matters from councils to the Ministry of Home Affairs; the creation of a Fishery Harbour Authority to control three fishing harbours; and the continuous revision of valuations for rating purposes.

The Government realise that the postponement of the local elections and the consequent delay in the regionalisation of major services will inevitably cause difficulties for the existing authorities, but we have been assured of the co-operation of the authorities and their staffs in tackling these difficulties and in the provision of services in the period until September 30 next year. It would be right to acknowledge this evening our appreciation of this co-operation and to thank both elected representatives and officers. My Lords, I beg to move.

Moved, That the Draft Local Government (Postponement of Elections and Reorganisation) (Northern Ireland) Order 1972, laid before the House on November 28, be approved.—(Lord Windlesham.)

7.7 p.m.

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, if another member of the Northern Irish team on this side of the House may intervene very briefly, may I say that it is a great misfortune that we have this Order. The Government—and we have debated this point on a previous occasion—are right to proceed now with the arrangements. I endorse my noble friend's opinion on the noble Lord, Lord Windlesham, but he must be getting rather embarrassed. Fortunately, there are not many people on his side of the House to hear the compliments.

It is unfortunate that this situation has had to come about. I will not go over the arguments made last week when we fully debated Northern Ireland, but I hope that as these interim temporary arrangements (as they are in a sense) progress—they really must of then-nature cause considerable difficulty and considerable extra work for everyone including those civil servants who go battling on in the most splendid and devoted way amid all the troubles—the noble Lord may be able to report to us if some of them do not work as well as he would hope. One advantage of the present arrangement is that the Government are able to move extraordinarily rapidly in producing flexible solutions to meet particular problems. When I think of the time that we take to pass legislation concerning the United Kingdom, it must be rather tempting that this single Ministry organisation for Northern Ireland does produce rather effective decision-making and therefore government.

My Lords, I should like to ask one question, though if the Minister finds it difficult to answer it, I will leave it. The noble Lord paid a tribute to the cooperation of local authorities. May we assume now that all local authorities are fully co-operating? Are rating strikes or any of the difficulties that there have been in the past still continuing in certain areas? It may be that the noble Lord would rather leave that subject to-night, but none the less I should hope that, if that is so, it is a good augury perhaps for the Government's White Paper when it does come out.

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, the noble Lord is in a generous mood this evening, as indeed he has been throughout most of the debates on Northern Ireland for several months. I particularly welcome the tribute he paid to the Civil Service. As a former Minister with responsibility for the Civil Service, I know that his comments will be appreciated by the Northern Ireland Civil Service and by the United Kingdom civil servants in the office of the Secretary of State. As the noble Lord remarked, there is an opportunity, with a small and compact organisation, to move fairly quickly and flexibly.

I find, also, as a student of government, that there is an almost unique relationship between civil servants and Ministers, because there is such a small group of people who have come together to deal with one particular problem. They work and live closely with one another; and it is fundamentally a one-problem issue. There are, of course, a whole range of administrative matters, but it is the deep political divide in Northern Ireland and the way in which it can be resolved that is the common concern of everyone working with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. The relationships within a small Department, and an exceptional one like the Northern Ireland Office, are very different, and the procedures that flow from this are somewhat different, too, from those found on what is called this side of the water.

We have had much consultation—I have been engaged in a great deal of it myself—over the postponement of the local government elections. On the day of the Secretary of State's announcement—I think it was—he asked Mr. Howell, at that time the Parliamentary Under-Secretary, to attend a special meeting of the Local Government Consultative Committee in order to explain to the members of the Committee why the Secretary of State felt it necessary to make this postponement by six months and to ask for their co-operation; and we have received great co-operation since.

The question of the rent and rates strike does not arise directly on this Order. I am afraid that the withholding of rent and rates as a protest still continues, and on quite a significant scale, although not so great a scale as it did at its peak. Nor is it so conspicuous. It is not so much of an issue as it was, although unfortunately it still exists. But the protest is, of course, in the main by ratepayers, or the tenants of local authority housing, rather than by the elected local authorities themselves.

On Question, Motion agreed to.