§ LORD WINDLESHAMMy Lords, this is a Money Bill and in moving the Second Reading I need not trouble the House with more than a brief explanation. I should make clear that it is a Bill not about expenditure, but about financial machinery. The normal procedure of Estimates and Appropriation, with an opportunity for Parliamentary control at each stage, are not affected. The Bill enables borrowing by the Northern Ireland Exchequer from the National Loan Fund on a larger scale, while Clause 2 permits a greater flexibility by way of grants-in-aid.
The Bill does not make any fundamental revision in the existing financial relations between the Treasury and the Northern Ireland Exchequer, which go back to the Government of Ireland Act 1920. The opportunity has, however, been taken to improve Parliamentary acountability by requiring copies of Appropriation and certain other accounts (as specified in Clause 3), and the Reports of the Northern Ireland Comptroller and Auditor General on them, to be laid at Westminster. The application of Clauses 2 and 3 is limited to the period covered by the Northern Ireland (Temporary Provisions) Act, 1972. I beg to move.
§ Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Windlesham.)
241§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord would just clear up one point, which was raised with me after what he told me in the earlier debate about the total annual commitment. As he made clear, the £300 million includes £100 million of loans. The question that I was immediately asked was: are these loans ever repaid or in effect, is it £300 million of aid grant?
§ LORD WINDLESHAMMy Lords, anyone concerned with public finance would be a rash man if he said that all loans were always repaid. The relevant paragraph in the White Paper is No. 67, on page 30. I wonder whether it is really necessary to read it out. I do not believe that it is, and I prefer to leave it to the noble Lord to study. It is a carefully composed paragraph and the answer I gave earlier is a clear and simple one to understand. The £200 million figure excludes loans, so we know what we are talking about. If we include loans from the National Loans Fund, we get the higher figure of £300 million. It is a question of how the figures are presented.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, I am much obliged and I will not pursue the point, because when we come to the Committee stage the noble Lord will probably make it clear that the £300 million is a sum which will not be repaid.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, I do not think there will be a Committee stage, as this is a Money Bill. I appreciate the fact that the noble Lord, Lord Windlesham, having sat here most of the day and done extremely well, is now up against a professional Treasury spokesman from the Opposition Front Bench, and I suggest that perhaps he might find another occasion to answer my noble friend.
§ LORD WINDLESHAMMy Lords, due to the helpful intervention of the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition, I am now better informed than I was earlier. I understand that the answer is, Yes. The intention is that the loans are to be repaid and, in fact, some are now being repaid.
§ On Question, Bill read 2a: Committee negatived.