§ 3.9 p.m.
§ VISCOUNT HANWORTHMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what further steps they are taking to enforce the law and prevent overloaded lorries being used on the road.
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT (LORD SANDFORD)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are much concerned about the problem of overloaded lorries. In January of this year my right honourable friend the Minister for Transport Industries implemented statutory provisions under which enforcement officers may prohibit the movement of vehicles overloaded to the point of danger. Earlier this week the Road Traffic (Foreign Vehicles) Act 1972 came into force. This closes loopholes which have hitherto prevented our laws being enforced on foreign vehicles in this country. More weighbridges are being provided and further measures are being considered.
§ VISCOUNT HANWORTHMy Lords, while thanking the Minister for that reply, may I ask him why he thinks it is that Nottinghamshire had 22 per cent. of the total convictions in 1972 for overloaded lorries, when they have only 0.8 per cent. of the road system? Does the noble Lord think that if Nottinghamshire can enforce law, other counties also could do it?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord for 453 giving me the opportunity to pay tribute to the activities of the Deparament's Nottinghamshire staff. They work very closely with the police, and statistics the noble Lord mentioned include the Department's effort in this direction.
§ LORD POPPLEWELLMy Lords, could the noble Lord give us some idea of the Government's intentions about the appointment of more inspectors or interrogators, as distinct from the police?—because at the present moment the police check, of necessity, can only be a very casual one. This evil is growing to an alarming degree, and talk has been going on for quite a long time about the appointment of law enforcement officers. I do not like too many law enforcement officers, but I think that this is a matter of some importance.
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, the Department's staff has been increased from 181 to 195, and it may be increased further.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that almost daily we receive reports of gas mains and water mains bursting, with consequent great interruption of traffic? Does he not think that the presence of so many of these heavy lorry-loads on the roads has something to do with that?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, I note the noble Lord's question and I will certainly look into it.
§ LORD CHAMPIONMy Lords, the noble Lord praised Nottinghamshire. May I ask whether the reason for their success is the fact that they have an unfair proportion of enforcement officers? If not, what is the reason for success in this particular county? Further, does the noble Lord not agree that all the rest of the country is suffering from the fact that we see so much of this overloading, particularly at this time of the year, when there are loads of bales of hay and straw which are dangerously loaded and not properly secured?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, Nottinghamshire is figuring largely in this exchange because it was featured in the article in the magazine, Drive.
§ LORD SLATERMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the general public have concluded that a mockery is being 454 made of the police authorities throughout the country who are dealing with the problem of overloaded lorries? Many of the police authorities are not up to their full establishment, and they do not know what to do to attract more people into their service in order to get up to their full establishment.
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, the noble Lord knows that while I can speak directly for the Department's own staff, the police authorities and the weights and measures inspectors used for these enforcement purposes are employed by the local authorities. It is a matter for them to judge the priority that enforcement work must take.
§ LORD ORR-EWINGMy Lords, bearing in mind the fact that the police are already heavily overloaded, that they are asked to keep a check on fumes from lorries, on the overloading of lorries, and on the testing of brakes of lorries, and when they have so many other wide responsibilities in the field of crime, is it not unrealistic to continue piling responsibility on to the police? Would the Minister consider alternative methods of carrying out these inspections and bringing these lorries under proper control?
§ LORD SANDFORDYes, my Lords, certainly. In addition to the measures that I have mentioned, we are considering further moves. We are of course aware of the need to avoid distracting the police from other pressing duties.
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, can the noble Lord say what is the maximum penalty for overloading a lorry?
§ LORD SANDFORDNo, my Lords; not without notice.
§ VISCOUNT HANWORTHMy Lords, is the Minister aware that a responsible estimate of the proportion of overloaded vehicles on the roads is one in ten? Is the Minister also aware that, of the deaths occurring to occupants of cars and light vans, at least half are caused by those vehicles coming into collision with lorries?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, if I may say so, it is only too easy to arrive at conclusions of that kind as a result of reading the article in Drive. But in fact the heavy lorry accident rate is the 455 lowest for any category of vehicle. It is not that 10 per cent. of all lorries are overloaded, but that 10 per cent. of all lorries checked are found to be overloaded. Lorries are not checked unless, first of all, there is a suspicion that they are overloaded.
§ LORD POPPLEWELLMy Lords, will the noble Lord forgive me for pressing my question again? This matter of the appointment of additional investigating or interrogating officers has been under discussion for a great number of years. Is the Minister able to indicate when he hopes to be able to make a statement giving some indication of the number that he ultimately aims at, in order to reach a satisfactory solution to this problem?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, I did not just say that we were considering an increase. I said that we had increased the staff from 181 to 195. We may increase it further.
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, is the Minister aware that the complaints to which we have listened—and they are justifiable complaints—are nothing to what we shall have when we go into the Common Market, and have harmonisation of our road transport with the Continental vehicles?