LORD INGLEWOODMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are satisfied that separate Scottish Bills are presented only when there would be no saving of Parliamentary time or other clear advantage by including clauses with a special Scottish application in Bills which relate to the United Kingdom as a whole.
§ THE MINISTER OF STATE, SCOTTISH OFFICE (Lord POLWARTH)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are satisfied that the decision whether or not Scottish legislation should take the form of a separate Scottish Bill is in each case taken in the light of all relevant considerations. The saving of Parliamentary time must always be one of the most important of these considerations. On the other hand, as I am sure the noble Lord will appreciate, it cannot be the only one. In many cases the subject matter of the legislation makes it unsuitable as a subject for inclusion in a United Kingdom Bill, particularly in areas in which Scots law is widely different from that of the other parts of the United Kingdom. And even where the inclusion of Scottish provisions in a United Kingdom Bill might be technically possible, regard must be had to the not unreasonable demand of the Scottish public and legal profession for a comprehensive and readily accessible body of Scottish Statute Law.
LORD INGLEWOODMy Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that long and full reply, may I ask him 273 whether he is aware that neither I nor anyone else disputes the need on occasions for separate Scottish Bills? What I am asking is whether he is satisfied that we need quite so many—for instance, three to-day and a separate Scottish Order. And is he aware that on many occasions the debates on Scottish Bills are largely a repetition of those of English Bills? For instance, debates on the Housing (Financial Provisions) (Scotland) Bill, which took up 21 hours in each House, largely repeated the same arguments as had been put forward on the English Housing Finance Bill. Does not the noble Lord think that at a time such as now, at the beginning of August, with all this pressure on the Parliamentary timetable, there is occasion to look into this matter again?
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, as I have said before, Her Majesty's Government are satisfied and I myself am satisfied, after seeing these different measures. I am all too aware of the number of them before your Lordships' House this afternoon and, from a personal point of view, I can assure your Lordships that I shall do everything to ensure that no more Scottish Bills are introduced than is absolutely necessary in the light of the considerations which I mentioned earlier.
LORD INGLEWOODMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that on the current list of Statutory Instruments under the Clean Air Act 1956, apart from the English Statutory Instrument there are two Scottish ones?
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, I was not in fact aware of that. But if I detect a slight note of envy in the noble Lord's question because his own county of Westmorland is not benefiting from the advantages of Scottish legislation, I can only say that he can possibly do a deal about this on the forthcoming local government reorganisation.
§ LORD HOYMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that Scotland resents law by reference to another Act, and would resent having just a reference clause in any particular Bill? If it comes to the Clean Air Act, it might be for the Government to consider relating England into the Scottish provisions and doing so by reference.
§ LORD BROOKE OF CUMNORMy Lords, as the saving of Parliamentary time was mentioned in the Question, may I ask whether my noble friend is aware that anyone who has taken through Standing Committee in another place a Town and Country Planning Bill covering both English law and Scottish law, as I have done, would never willingly repeat so prolonged an experience?
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, in view of the very formidable case that the noble Lord has made for Scottish legislation, may I ask him why it has been found possible to bring in just the one Bill in relation to the European Communities? How is it conceivable that we can foist on to Scotland the same body of law as we are foisting on to England?
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, we are one Kingdom, and Scotland, with its ancient connections with the Continent, is very happy to be included in the one Bill.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, may I repeat the question—a serious question? Is the noble Lord really telling us that there is no part of the seven Treaties and 41 volumes of legislation which does not call for separate Scottish consideration?
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, I can only say, in reply to the noble Lord, that to the best of my knowledge there have been no objections to this from the Scottish legal fraternity, with a great many of whom I am familiar.