§ 3.24 p.m.
§ THE EARL OF BUCKINGHAMSHIREMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government what they intend to do with regard to the report that the Dutch are going to build an international airport on the Rhine Delta, which is almost opposite Maplin—named as the area of London's third airport.
§ THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD DRUMALBYN)My Lords, I presume that the noble Earl is concerned about the air traffic control problems which might arise. The Roskill Commission, when considering a possible site for the Third London Airport on the Maplin Sands, reported that its proximity to European air space would present no insurmountable difficulties. I understand that the Civil Aviation Authority, who are now responsible for air traffic control matters, consider that this would be so even if there were a new airport on the Dutch coast. I am informed, however, that no decision has so far been taken by the Government of the Netherlands on the siting of a new airport.
§ THE EARL OF BUCKINGHAMSHIREMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that reply, I should like to ask him what discussions have been held by Her Majesty's Government with the Dutch authorities concerning the compatibility 470 of two such developments, particularly with the heavy utilisation of air space at lower medium level by the cross-Channel air routes?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, of course every country needs its own international airport capacity to cater for the needs of its own air passenger traffic. No discussions have yet taken place, so far as I know, because, as I have said, no decision has yet been reached by the Dutch Government. But such discussions will certainly take place as part of the normal preliminary planning for the operation of the Maplin Airport.
§ LORD HARVEY OF PRESTBURYMy Lords, does my noble friend not agree that, even if the Dutch do not develop a new airport on the Rhine Delta, nevertheless by keeping the existing airport at Schipol a very integrated system will be required to control between Maplin Sands and Schipol, and that this could lead to complication with fast flying aircraft on the approaches to both countries?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNYes, my Lords: and I am sure that these discussions will take place. I should like to draw attention to the view taken by the National Air Traffic Service, that
in general terms it can he said that two major airports should be separated by at least 60 miles to achieve independent omni-directional operation at maximum capacity".The Dutch coast lies more than 100 nautical miles away.
§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEMy Lords, does not the logic of this argue for the early advancement of the Maplin scheme?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, the Government are getting on with it as fast as they can.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, would it not he wise not to accept the advice proffered by the noble Earl to advance the implementation of this bizarre and escapist solution to our own problem by sticking our airport out on the Essex coast? If we delay it rather more we shall see that there are other disadvantages which ought to be taken into account.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords we have discussed this matter on a number of 471 occasions, and Her Majesty's Government have decided to proceed with the Maplin Sands Airport.
§ THE EARL OF BUCKINGHAMSHIREMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that if there is to be a holding area over the sea associated with Maplin—
THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (EARL JELLICOE)My Lords, may I interrupt the noble Earl? I think the House has deprecated the reading of supplementary questions. I let go by without protest the reading of the noble Earl's first supplementary question, but I feel that I should draw his attention to the matter.
§ LORD BESWICKMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord, Lord Drumalbyn, if he will answer the question the noble Lord has already asked; namely, that if you have a holding area over the Maplin airport will it not inevitably become entangled with the holding area of an airport on the Rhine Delta? Would the noble Lord confirm that, in the event of two airports being built so close, the diversion from Maplin would in all probability be in Holland?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I am not at all certain that that is right, but obviously it is a question that will have to be discussed, whether or not there is another airport built by the Dutch authorities in Holland.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Earl the Leader of the House, in view of the rebuke which my noble friend had to suffer, whether he is aware that when noble Lords on the other side of the House read their supplementary questions, because he is facing this side he does not see what is going on? Why does he pick on my noble friend?
EARL JELLICOEMy Lords, I must remind the noble Lord, Lord Shinwell—I suspect that he was not in your Lordships' House at the time—that recently I addressed the same rebuke (that is perhaps a rather harsh word to use) to one of my noble friends for precisely this minor offence against one of your Lordships rules.
§ LORD BURNTWOODMy Lords, reverting to the original Question on the subject of an international airport, may I ask whether the noble Lord, Lord Drumalbyn, was not being perhaps a little dogmatic in saying that every country must have its own international airport? Looking a little into the future, and bearing in mind that the most up-to-date aircraft can do the journey between the Rhine Delta and Maplin Sands in approximately nine minutes, should we not be thinking more in terms of a real international free airport?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I take note of what the noble Lord asks, and I am sure that this will be carefully considered. But at the present time there can be no doubt that the situation, in current terms and current circumstances, is as I have stated it.