§ LORD WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they have been consulted about a scheme to train "hardened criminals" as probation and welfare officers and whether such a scheme has their approval.
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION AND SCIENCE (LORD BELSTEAD)My Lords, my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has not heard of such a scheme as the noble Lord has described. He has, however, been consulted about an experimental project to train twelve selected borstal trainees for jobs in the social work field—for example, in the staffing of hostels, adventure playgrounds, youth clubs and community centres—but not as probation officers. He proposes in the first instance to discuss the project with the sponsors.
§ LORD WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord the Minister for his reply. May I ask him whether he personally has seen the report in one of the more responsible daily papers drawing attention to this suggestion? While I accept and readily approve of the scheme which he has mentioned and wish it every success, can the noble Lord give an assurance from his Department that if there is in future any suggestion at all about using ex-offenders as probation officers and welfare workers within the Probation Service the 56 matter will be referred to the Penal Advisory Council so that they may consider all the implications?
§ LORD BELSTEADYes, my Lords, I have seen the report in the newspapers to which the noble Lord refers. The noble Lord, Lord Wells-Pestell, will be aware that the Penal Advisory Council is at this time looking into non-custodial treatment of young offenders. On the question of the assurance from the Home Office for which the noble Lord asked, may I just add that the Probation Service has standards for recruiting and, I think I am right in saying, that entrants are decided on and employed by local probation and after-care committees.
§ LORD WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that reply, may I say that this suggested step, which I understand from the noble Lord is not likely to be considered at this stage, would be quite a revolutionary one. And although I express no view at the moment, I would ask him and his Department to bear in mind that there are bodies like the Magistrates' Association, the National Association of Probation Officers, as well as the Penal Advisory Council, who would have some useful contributions to make about the advisability of using ex-offenders as probation officers?
§ LORD BELSTEADMy Lords, I entirely agree with the noble Lord that it would be (to use his word) revolutionary to adopt such a course, because as I understand it, at the moment it would not be possible statutorily for a borstal trainee to undertake this "new careers" training, as it is called, since the trainee is under the borstal authorities. I know that my right honourable friend the Home Secretary will certainly bear in mind what the noble Lord said in the second part of his supplementary remarks.
§ LORD WELLS-PESTELLMy Lords, I am much obliged.