LEAD CONTENT OF PETROL (Hansard, 17 November 1971)

§ Loan O'HAGAN
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, Her Majesty's Government's review of the whole question of pollution 659 from motor vehicles, including emissions of lead, is nearly complete. An announcement will be made shortly.

§ LORD O'HAGAN
My Lords, may I thank the noble Lord for the first satisfactory, or semi-satisfactory, answer he has given yet? Is he aware that we allow more lead in our petrol than any other European country: and what evidence is available to Her Majesty's Government that British children are more lead resistant that their European neighbours?

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, without commenting on the statement of fact, which I do not think I am qualified to do as I do not know all the European limits, I may say that the maximum British standard content is 0.84 grammes per litre. In fact, the maximum used in the highest grade petrol is 0 .75 and the average for all grades is 0 .46. In America at the moment I understand it is about 0 .5 grammes per litre. We have no firm evidence of danger to health caused by lead emissions from vehicles.

§ LORD O'HAGAN
My Lords, what daily dosage of lead would the noble Lord prescribe as a health-giving tonic? Is he aware that none of the surveys set up deals directly with the link between lead in petrol and lead in people?

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, it is Government policy to try to reduce the increase in the total usage of lead.

LORD INGLEWOOD
My Lords, since it is known that lead taken in food or in drink is extremly toxic and is controlled in this country by very tight regulations, is it really right, as the noble Lord, Lord Mowbray and Stourton, has implied, that lead taken in from petrol fumes is not damaging?

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, I merely said that it has not been established that the measure of lead which might be taken through fumes is at the moment contributing further to the danger to health. We do not want to increase the lead in any way, we are trying to decrease it; and, as I said in my original Answer, we are taking full medical advice. Sir George Godber is 660 sitting with a Committee and we shall shortly be issuing a Statement.

§ LORD AMULREE
My Lords, can the noble Lord tell me what are the objections to cutting down the amount of lead in petrol because of the danger to health?

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, it is a very long answer, but the simple answer is that if you were to remove lead from petrol you would have to do away with high octane petrol. If you did away with high octane petrol you would have large low-compression engines and much more exhaust of substances such as carbon-monoxide, nitrogen-oxide and hydrocarbons, which are more dangerous than lead.

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
My Lords, apart from the fumes, can the noble Lord assure us that a man who works at a petrol pump or in a garage is not exposed to an occupational hazard by reason of the fact that his hands are being contaminated with petrol?

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, we are chiefly dealing here with exhaust gases, and it may be argued that car owners should switch off their engines before filling the tank, which is the customary thing to do. Secondly, the cars are in the open.

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
My Lords, I think the noble Lord must have misunderstood me. I am suggesting that a man's hands are contaminated with petrol and in a garage he may not always be washing his hands, though he may often eat sandwiches. Now we know that there is lead in petrol, can we be assured that this man is not exposed to a special occupational hazard?

§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON
My Lords, I said that on the average there is something like 0 .46 grammes per litre, which is not a vast amount. I imagine that you handle a good many things, such as coal, in your daily life which have more lead in them.

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
My Lords, I do not work in a garage.

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (EARL JELLICOE)
My Lords, I do not wish to close down this discussion, but it is now 3 o'clock. My noble friend has said 661 that this matter is under review and that an announcement is shortly to be made by the Government. I think your Lordships, on the whole, would feel that it is now time to pass on to the debate.