NATIONAL INSURANCE ACT 1966 (COMMENCEMENT No. 3) ORDER 1971 (Hansard, 21 May 1971)

§ LORD ABERDARE
My Lords, I beg to move that the Draft National Insurance Act 1966 (Commencement No. 3) Order 1971, laid before the House on May 6, be approved. Flat-rate unemployment benefit is at present payable, subject to the usual conditions, to workers who are temporarily laid off or are working short time. Section 3(1) of the National Insurance Act 1966 introduced a rule which prevented the payment of unemployment benefit for the first six days of each period of suspension by the employer.
The rule was applied to earnings-related supplement to unemployment benefit from October, 1966, and was to be applied to flat-rate unemployment benefit from March 10, 1969. The delay was intended to give both sides of industry an opportunity of progressing towards voluntary guarantee payments. The previous Administration undertook to review the progress being made half way through the transitional period, and at that stage decided that legislation would be necessary. It became obvious that there would be great difficulty in establishing a statutory scheme of guarantee payments in the time available, and accordingly the National Insurance Act 1969 postponed the full implementation of Section 3(1) of the National Insurance Act 1966 until an appointed day.
The Government have examined the problem carefully and consider that the payment of unemployment benefit to suspended workers who are not unemployed and not looking for a job is a misuse of the National Insurance Fund. The Government 752 are convinced that it is right in I principle that responsibility for workers during short periods of lay-off or short-time working should rest with the industry concerned. Several industrial agreements reached in recent years have included provision for lay-off pay, and both sides of industry have now had a period of five years to prepare for the change which, indeed, is to be extended for a further period, in that the appointed day will be January 1, 1972. I beg to move.

§ BARONESS PHILLIPS
My Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord for that explanation of this Order. Unhappily, the question of unemployment is all too topical at the moment, whichever aspect of it we are concerned with. I should like to ask the Minister how much this Government appreciate that even in operating this Order there is some slight anomaly in relation to a suspended worker. The unemployment basic pay, as I understand it, is £5 per week, or 16s. 8d. per day—or, in new pence, 83½,p. If a worker is able to obtain some temporary employment during this time he cannot earn any more than 33½,p per day. I think the noble Lord will agree that the kind of man who has the energy and initiative to do something during a lay-off period should not have less in his pocket than one who is receiving a straightforward benefit.
I hope the optimistic idea that all industries have come to their own arrangements is correct. It would be very sad if there were groups of workers who, because of the six-day period, were without any money at all. Of course, as we found in the past, all this means is that if one does not draw from one source one will draw from supplementary benefit, and therefore it cannot really be any solution. However, I accept the Order moved by the noble Lord.

§ LORD ABERDARE
My Lords, I am extremely grateful to the noble Baroness for the way in which she has accepted the Order. There is not a great deal between us. I think we both realise that it is an anomaly that those who are not, strictly speaking, unemployed should at present be able to draw unemployment 753 benefit. It has led to a good deal of difficulty in certain cases where employers have treated this as a kind of subsidy to pay unemployment benefit to their workers while they are working only short time. The noble Baroness asked me a complicated question which I hope I can—

§ BARONESS PHILLIPS
My Lords, I do not expect the Minister to reply at this point of time.

§ LORD ABERDARE
My Lords, I am extremely grateful to the noble Baroness, as I am not sure that I have the answer handy. But I will certainly let her have the answer to her question.