HL Deb 20 May 1971 vol 319 cc519-21

3.11 p.m.

THE EARL OF LAUDERDALE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what study groups have been set up with what terms of reference in which Departments:

  1. (1) to select the best airport site at Foulness; and
  2. (2) to examine the project for a deep-water port with associated industrial development;
and to whom those interested should address themselves.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT (LORD SANDFORD)

My Lords, it has long been the practice not to disclose details of the arrangements within the Government for the discussion of public business. Communications on general issues affecting the siting of the airport and the concept of a joint seaport-airport with associated industrial development involving participation by private capital, should be addressed to the Department of the Environment.

THE EARL OF LAUDERDALE

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. May I ask whether he can assure us that the Department of the Environment have decided what machinery is necessary to handle this matter and are getting on with it, for some people fear that instead of the Government doing good by stealth they are being stealthy in doing no good?

LORD SANDFORD

We have decided, my Lords, and we are getting on with it.

LORD BARNBY

My Lords, with reference to the reply to a former Question, may I ask the Minister whether consideration is being given to the changing of the name from " Foulness ", to which some people object, to the proper name " Maplin Sands "?

LORD SANDFORD

My Lords, that is another question.

LORD NUNBURNHOLME

My Lords, as regard the first part of the noble Earl, Lord Lauderdale's Question, have the Government or those dealing with the matter got this cart before the horse? Surely industrial development and the new port are the main objects of the exercise, and the airport becomes a very secondary project? As regards the deep-water port and associated industrial development, may I ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are contemplating setting up a corporation to develop the whole of the Foulness project, and whether, by so doing, they would not save a considerable amount of money?

LORD LEATHERLAND

May I ask—

LORD SANDFORD

My Lords, would it not be better if I answered the noble Lord, Lord Nunburnholme, first? All the points the noble Lord has mentioned in his question are of course being considered, but I would not agree that the third London Airport is not the primary question to be settled.

LORD LEATHERLAND

My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether, among the questions the Government are considering, there is one for setting up a special board to ensure that land speculators do not cash in on an enormous scale in connection with this project?

LORD SANDFORD

My Lords, the proper and orderly planning of the whole project is of course of paramount importance.

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that that answer is quite unsatisfactory? Can he not say whether any authority is to be set up to own the land which is to be reclaimed? Secondly, can he say who is to bear the cost of the dredging and reclamation?

LORD SANDFORD

My Lords, I cannot answer those questions in the context of the original Question.

LORD WYNNE-JONES

My Lords, would the noble Lord not agree that these Sands by any other name would remain as foul, and totally unsuitable for an airport site?

THE EARL OF LAUDERDALE

My Lords, reverting to the noble Lord's earlier answer, may I ask him this further question. May we take it that the Secretary of State for the Environment is in charge of this project and that it is not split between this Department and the Department of Trade and Industry?

LORD SANDFORD

My Lords, he is in charge of the aspects to which my original Answer alluded; namely, the general issues affecting the siting of the airport, the concept of a joint seaport-airport, with associated industrial development. There are of course a considerable number of issues in the development and building of an airport which are matters for the Secretary of State for the Department of Trade and Industry.

THE EARL OF LAUDERDALE

My Lords, may I thank the noble Lord for that reply, which is satisfactory so far as it goes.

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, reverting to the answer which the noble Lord gave to my supplementary question, he has said that he is satisfied that the appropriate machinery is considering these matters. Can he not say what matters are being considered, and that amongst them is the question of the ownership of the reclaimed land?

LORD SANDFORD

My Lords, yes, of course the ownership of the reclaimed land is a matter which is being considered within the Government; but the more precise details of how this matter is being considered at the moment are covered by the first part of my original Answer.

LORD LEATHERLAND

My Lords, in view of the suggestion that the syllable " foul " appears in the name " Foulness ", can the noble Lord assure us that that syllable is derived from " fowl " meaning birds, and not from " foul " meaning filthy?

LORD SANDFORD

I dare say that is very likely.