HL Deb 30 March 1971 vol 316 cc1214-7

2.40 p.m.

LORD INGLEWOOD

My Lords, I beg to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will authorise police authorities in England and Wales to insure mountain rescue personnel on the same basis as now obtains in Scotland, and that such insurance premiums should attract grant equally with other police expenditure.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE, HOME OFFICE (LORD WINDLESHAM)

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Home Secretary is considering this, in consultation with the local authority associations and chief officers of police.

LORD INGLEWOOD

My Lords, is not my noble friend aware that chief officers of police are anxious for something of this sort to be done? And why must England hang behind Scotland in this extremely sensible provision?

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, I am not aware of what the noble Lord has said about chief officers of police in England. They are being consulted now. We feel that it would not be right to agree to expenditure from public funds without knowing what might be involved. The need for mountain rescue is, of course, far greater in Scotland than in England and Wales.

LORD INGLEWOOD

My Lords, on the contrary, is my noble friend not aware that the need for mountain rescue in Wales and parts of the North of England is very great, and that these teams, mainly young men of the very highest quality, give of their services weekend after weekend, making do with the very minimum of equipment, and that there is no charge on public funds? Surely my noble friend is prepared to meet this very small but very worthwhile request.

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, as I have said, the Home Secretary is considering this matter. I agree that mountain rescue teams perform a valuable and praiseworthy service, but before entering into any commitment of this sort it is wise to consider what the practical implications and the expenditure is likely to be.

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, would the noble Lord find out the facts on this matter? Is he aware that he is not as well aware of the facts as the noble Lord who has just spoken? Perhaps when he has found out the facts, he may consider pressing the matter further and let us know when a decision is to be taken.

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, I do not accept that. I should like the noble Lord to tell me where he thinks I have not given the full facts.

VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD

My Lords, would not my noble friend agree that there are far fewer mountains in England and Wales than in Scotland?

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that there are far more climbers in England and Wales than there are in Scotland?

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, I hope that we may have an opportunity to discuss this matter again. If the noble Lord has figures about the number of mountains and climbers, I should like to hear them.

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, I do not want to take this matter too far, but we are asking the Government to assist. Is the noble Lord aware that his facts are not in line with those of the noble Lord who asked this Question? I will not press the Minister any further: we are only asking him to take notice of this.

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition is very right not to press me any further. The only point at issue is what the noble Lord, Lord Inglewood, said about the police in England and Wales, and the information I have is that the Association of Chief Officers of Police has been asked to gather information. We have also been in touch with the Scottish Home and Health Department and asked them to give us full particulars of their scheme. I am not aware that chief officers of police have given information on these lines.

LORD WYNNE-JONES

My Lords, is not the noble Lord aware that the attitude of the Government may force the natives of Cambria to associate themselves with the natives of Wales, and to become a serious thorn in the flesh of the present Government?

LORD WINDLESHAM

My Lords, I do not think I ought to be drawn any further on this Question.

LORD HUNT

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I have access to the facts which he is so anxious to have, but unfortunately I cannot put them in the form of a question? However, I feel just as strongly as the other speakers on this most important question.

LORD WINDLESHAM

Yes, my Lords. If the noble Lord will write to me, or speak to me, I shall be very glad to hear from him. I hope that noble Lords will look back at the Answer I gave. My right honourable friend is considering this particular proposal.

LORD BLYTON

My Lords, is the noble Lord the Minister aware that there are climbers on both sides of this House who do not need insurance policies?