HL Deb 25 March 1971 vol 316 cc988-90
EARL AMHERST

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they can confirm recent Press reports that the London-Lisbon air route is to be handed over to the new third airline B.U.A./Caledonian, and if so, when; and whether, since this route has been pioneered by B.E.A. with public money any compensation is to be payable to B.E.A.]

THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD DRUMALBYN)

My Lords, the Government are considering a number of possible routes which, together with the B.O.A.C. routes to West Africa, might satisfy the criteria announced on August 3, 1970. A Statement will be made shortly. With regard to the second part of the noble Earl's Question, no question of compensation for the transfer of air service licences from one airline to another arises, since air service licences are not a form of property constituting an asset.

EARL AMHERST

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord for that Answer, which I must say I find most unsatisfactory, may I ask whether he can give an assurance that if the third airline gets into difficulties there will be no further Government assistance by way of transfers of routes or of alterations of frequencies on certain routes?

LORD DRUMALBYN

Yes, my Lord; the Government have made it quite clear that the transfer of routes will represent a once-for-all exercise of this nature.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether, as B.E.A. were proposing from April 1 to allocate up to the 50 per cent. of capacity on these routes to tour operators, this will be the case under any new arrangements such as he contemplates, and, if so, whether he considers this equitable towards standard fare travellers in the summer months?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, this is rather a different question from that on the Order Paper, which simply asks whether Her Majesty's Government can confirm Press reports, and then asks a further question in relation to the future. If the noble Baroness will put a Question down, I shall be glad to answer it.

BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRY

My Lords, I think the noble Lord will agree that it is a relevant question.

LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYE

My Lords, may we know when the decision is likely to come? With their summer programme coming on, the airlines are getting embarrassed in that they do not know where they are.

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, my Answer said "shortly", but I can assure the noble Lord that it will be soon.

VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDS

My Lords, can the noble Lord tell the House what profit has now been transferred from B.E.A. to these private airlines? And when B.E.A. has to balance its accounts, which it must do by law, can he say whether it will be done by increasing the fares or whether it will be a charge on the national exchequer?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I find that question a little difficult to answer. So far as B.E.A. is concerned, of course none of the B.E.A. routes has been transferred.

VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDS

I am sorry, my Lords, I mean B.U.A.

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, B.U.A.? Does the noble Viscount not mean B.O.A.C.?

VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDS

Yes, my Lords, B.O.A.C.

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, I thought the noble Viscount might have meant B.O.A.C. All I can say is that it is well within the criteria which have been set and that is why the transfer of some further routes is being contemplated within those criteria.

LORD PARGITER

My Lords, can the noble Lord say whether, in order to get a proper balance, some of the profit-making internal routes will be transferred to private companies?

LORD DRUMALBYN

No, my Lords. That would not be in accord with—

LORD SHEPHERD

Government policy.

LORD DRUMALBYN

Yes, my Lords, Government policy, based on the Report of the Commission set up by the Party opposite.

LORD WYNNE-JONES

My Lords, when the Government have succeeded in transferring all the national assets to their friends will they issue a balance sheet?

LORD DRUMALBYN

My Lords, that is not the object. The noble Lord said, "have succeeded in transferring". Let me assure him that it is not the object of the Government to transfer assets away from the nationalised bodies except where it is in the national interest; and that in such cases they are transferred without regard to whether they are our friends or not.