§ 3.35 p.m.
§ THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENCE (LORD CARRINGTON)My Lords, with your Lordships' permission, I should like to repeat a Statement which my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made in another place about Northern Ireland. It is as follows:
"The House will have shared the regret which the Government felt at the news that Major Chichester-Clark had decided to resign. This Government, and right honourable gentlemen opposite before us, have had a constructive working relationship with him, and we have all admired the determination with which he has pursued the policies which he and we believe to be right in Northern Ireland. There has been no basic difference of view between us about these policies, whether in the social, economic or security fields.
"Considerable progress has been made during his term of office in social and economic measures, and in institutional changes, designed to ensure equality and fairness between every citizen in Northern Ireland. This progress was already beginning to bring about an evident improvement in the relations between the two main communities in the Province. This improvement is now being deliberately put at risk by extremists who regard a reduction of communal tension as contrary to their purposes. These extremists have resorted to the tactics of urban guerrilla warfare and outright terrorism.
"The functions of the security forces in Northern Ireland remain twofold. First, to maintain law and order and to prevent communal strife. Second, to root out terrorism and to deal with extremists with the least possible damage to the progress that has been achieved and to the lives and welfare of innocent people. The Army will act in pursuance of this policy with the utmost vigour, and the British Government will continue to support the Army with all the authority which is needed to carry out the military 666 measures which are judged necessary for the purpose.
"Following Major Chichester-Clark's visit to London last Tuesday, the decision was taken to send an additional artillery regiment in an infantry role, an infantry battalion and an armoured reconnaissance squadron to Northern Ireland. The artillery regiment has now arrived, and the others will follow in the next day or two.
"I am sure that the House will wish to pay tribute to the character and bearing of the troops in the difficult circumstances in which they are operating.
"We well appreciate the gravity of the threat posed by the terrorists, the disruption which it inflicts upon the life and economy of the province and the continuing strain which it imposes upon the people of Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, and it is our firm purpose to work for the same standards there as elsewhere in the United Kingdom, whether it be in economic and social progress or in the maintenance of law and order. That is the object of the policies pursued by right honourable gentlemen opposite and by my colleagues and myself. The United Kingdom Government, which has the ultimate authority and responsibility for Northern Ireland, will give its full support to any government there which cooperates in implementing the policies which we judge right for these purposes."
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, there is little that I can usefully say, beyond repeating again and pledging the support of the Opposition—and, I believe of the whole country—to the Government in their efforts in these matters. They are maintaining the policies of previous Governments, the policy that they supported in Opposition, and this is consistent with the Downing Street Declaration in 1969.
The noble Lord has paid tribute to the troops; we have done so already. There is, to my mind, no doubt about the extraordinary restraint they have shown. Perhaps the noble Lord could tell us—and it might as well go on the Record—whether they are, as I am sure they are, maintaining their complete neutrality. 667 They have an appalling task to perform. I would ask the noble Lord this question. There are always suggestions at moments like this that, somehow, the politicians are stopping the security forces from doing their job. The noble Lord has been over to Northern Ireland, and I wonder whether he could say a word on this point. I saw Mr. Maudling on television the other day, and he said that there was not a word of truth in this suggestion. But this rumour is always made, and it is apt to be used damagingly. I should like to be satisfied that the security forces themselves are favouring the policy which no doubt the noble Lord himself endorses. Beyond that, I believe there is nothing that I can add, beyond repeating that we cannot ignore our responsibilities in this matter and shall have to continue to discharge them.
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord the Leader of the Opposition. As he says, this is not in any sense a Party matter: both Parties have been involved in this matter and both have come to the same conclusion, that this is the right policy to follow. And I do not think that there will be any dissent in any quarter of this House.
The noble Lord asked me two questions. I would confirm—if indeed it is necessary, as he himself said—that the Army is being totally neutral in this and is doing its job in what I believe to be a wholly proper and right way. I think that the continual sniping at it in some quarters (not here, but elsewhere; in the Press and so on), the suggestion that it is not doing the right job, is not helpful. People ought to understand the parameters within which the Army has necessarily to act in a situation of this kind. There is no truth whatever in the suggestion that the politicians are trying to tell the Army to adopt tactics that the Army does not think to be right. There is no disagreement between myself, or my Ministry, or Her Majesty's Government, and the General Officer Commanding or the Army. We believe that the tactics which the Army is pursuing are the only possible tactics in this particular case, and we believe them to be right; though I think it would be wrong to suppose when you are facing a number, a fairly small 668 number, of terrorists, who inevitably have the initiative and the advantage of geography on their side, that there is any very easy solution or any very quick one.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, we share the same regret as the Government and the official Opposition at the resignation of Major Chichester-Clark. I should like, on behalf of my colleagues, to be associated with what has been said about the Army. We think it is doing a first-class job of work in very difficult conditions. I want to ask the Minister whether he will resist any suggestion that the police should be armed, or that we should have a return of anything like the B Specials? Having said that, I would add that we should certainly support the Government in any measures they wish to take to recruit more people to work in the intelligence field, which is probably the most difficult one.
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, I am grateful, too, to the noble Lord, Lord Byers. I hope that the tributes which both noble Lords have paid to the Army will be published in the Northern Ireland newspapers, and seen by the troops on the ground who are doing this very unpleasant job. There is no question whatever of the revival of the B Specials or of the police being armed. I can assure the noble Lord that intelligence is one of the matters we are looking at very carefully, and have been for some time.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord a question? Whilst I appreciate the gravity of the situation, and would not want to say a word that would make it worse, is it not the case that in these negotiations Her Majesty's Government are dealing only with the military situation, and that that can be no solution to the problem of Northern Ireland? Are Her Majesty's Government giving thought to a more longer-term political settlement of these issues, which alone can bring about the removal of grievances and the achievement of a reconciliation?
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, I think that both this Government and the last Government have given a good deal of thought to the questions of long-term settlements and long-term solutions. But if the noble Lord had been over to 669 Northern Ireland recently, and indeed had been reading the newspapers, I think, with great respect, that he would realise that the possibility of any long-term settlement is, in the climate in Northern Ireland at the present time, a little remote.
§ LORD STONHAMMy Lords, the noble Lord said that Her Majesty's Government would continue to support the Stormont Government while they pursued policies which seemed to us right. Will he confirm that those policies are exactly the same as those discussed in 1967, both in Downing Street and at Stormont, and to which the whole of the Stormont Cabinet were committed and fully supported? Will he also confirm that no leader of the Stormont Government who did not support those policies would be acceptable to Her Majesty's Government?
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, if the noble Lord will read very carefully the Statement which I have made, I think he will see that both those two points are covered.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, I am afraid that I forgot to pay a tribute to the former Premier of Northern Ireland. I cannot imagine any more thankless task to-day—it must have been a tremendous ordeal—and one would wish his successor luck. It is, of course, quite clear, and I think apparent from the noble Lord's Statement, that the policy of the Government, and our support for the Northern Ireland Government, rest on the continuation of the policies of reform. There have been suggestions in a number of quarters that perhaps we ought to debate Northern Ireland. My own personal view is that at the moment there is nothing to be gained by this. It may be that at a certain stage we may have to do so, but I imagine that the noble Lord the Secretary of State would share my view on this.
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, I think your Lordships have always taken the view that if we have a debate in this House there should be some object in it, whether it is to air the subject or, if possible, to help matters along. If we had discussions through the usual channels as to whether or not there should be a debate, I should be very content, and so, I am sure, would my noble friend the Leader of the House.