§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the withdrawal of the Beira patrol is under consideration.]
§ THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENCE (LORD CARRINGTON)My Lords, the position remains as I stated in my written reply to my noble friend Lord Barnby on January 12. The Government have already announced their intention of exploring the possibilities of a just settlement of the Rhodesian problem; meanwhile sanctions, including the patrol, will be continued.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether before there is any withdrawal of the Beira patrol the United Nations will be consulted, inasmuch as the United Kingdom Government received the endorsement of the United Nations. At the same time, can the noble Lord say whether in the opinion of the Government—leaving aside the questions whether or not the Rhodesian Government is illegal, or whether or not it has committed a misdemeanour—the Beira patrol now achieves a useful purpose?
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, with regard to the noble Lord's first question, much depends upon whether or not we can have negotiations with the Rhodesian Government, and I think we had better leave it there for the time being. With regard to his second question, the fact remains that no oil has got through to Beira.
§ LORD SEGALMy Lords, can the noble Lord say how many ships have been stopped and searched by the Beira patrol during the last 12 months?
§ LORD CARRINGTONNot without a great deal of notice, my Lords.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, is it the view of the Government that the Beira patrol is absolutely preventing the Rhodesians from getting all the oil that they want?
§ LORD CARRINGTONNo, my Lords, I do not think it is the view of the Government that the Beira patrol has been successful in preventing oil from reaching Rhodesia.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, may I therefore ask the noble Lord whether it is true that the Beira patrol is not effective in preventing oil from being sent to Rhodesia? If that is so, is it not about time that the Government came quite clean about it and told us the, facts of the situation? Finally, if the Beira patrol is of no value, why not discontinue it, after consultation with the United Nations?
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, as I said earlier, I think that this depends on whether or not we are successful in getting negotiations going with the Rhodesian Government. I think the sanctions and the Beira patrol are tied up with that, and it would be unwise to take it any further at the moment.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, will the noble Lord not agree that this is not a question of getting talks started; it is a question of getting a satisfactory conclusion to those talks?
§ LORD CARRINGTONNo, my Lords, I do not think that that is right. At the moment, the position is that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has had some exploratory talks about whether there is a basis for negotiations to proceed.
§ LORD MERRIVALEMy Lards, may I ask my noble friend whether there are any proposals to extend the scope of air surveillance, or the strength of the R.A.F. detachment at Majunga, which is part of the Beira patrol, in view of the extension of Soviet naval power into the Indian Ocean?
§ LORD CARRINGTONI think that is a different question, my Lords.
§ LORD BARNBYMy Lords, does the noble Lord understand that this patrol is regarded by the Portuguese Government—our ally and friend of several 175 centuries—as the equivalent of an affront to their national sovereignty, and that in the event of certain action it might well be regarded as piracy on the high seas? Further, could my noble friend say whether units of the Royal Navy which are employed on this service are currently having the courtesy of the ports of the South African Republic for certain requirements?
§ LORD CARRINGTONMy Lords, with regard to my noble friend's first question, the Beira patrol is conducted in order to comply with our obligation under paragraph 5 of Security Council Resolution 221 of 1966. With regard to his second question, Royal Naval ships on the Beira patrol are refuelled and re-provisioned from afloat support.
§ LORD BARNBYMay I ask my noble friend whether I understood him to say that these ships are being provisioned in South African ports?
§ LORD CARRINGTONFrom afloat support, my Lords.