§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware of the lack of cheaper fares available direct to the public unconditionally on the main routes served by scheduled airlines and whether they will recommend to IATA that the matter be considered.]
§ THE MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO (LORD DRUMALBYN)My Lords, the answer to the first part of the noble Baroness's Question is "Yes", but the answer to the second part must, for various reasons, be "No". In particular, it is essential that air fares that are cheaper than normal public fares for tourist or economy class should have more stringent conditions attached to them, since otherwise nobody would pay the full normal fares.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, we never seem to get very far on this matter. Does the Minister recall that on February 18 he told the House (col. 802 of the OFFICIAL REPORT) that Governments were not without influence in these matters? May I ask him whether he is aware that B.O.A.C. is challenging the international air fare price-fixing cartel and, if this Government approve, proposes to cut fares on mid-Atlantic routes from April 1?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, it is true that Governments are not without influence, but they do not, as suggested in the noble Baroness's question, recommend directly to IATA, which is an 170 association of independent airlines. As I said yesterday, they advise British airlines before the negotiations. As to the B.O.A.C. Caribbean route, the "Early bird" offer is one which is conditional; you need a four months booking ahead of time in order to qualify for it. However, this is something which we hope will become much more widely available, and discussions about this are going on.
§ BARONESS BURTON OF COVENTRYMy Lords, will the Minister please tell the House why the Government will not recommend similar action on fares to Europe as B.O.A.C. is taking on fares to the Caribbean? Why are the Government not prepared to put up this proposal through B.E.A. in IATA for consideration on passenger fares to Europe?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I have not said that B.E.A. would not be prepared to put it up. I have only said that this is a matter which has to be very carefully studied, and that, at the end of the day, it is a matter for agreement between the airlines at IATA.
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I agree with the noble Baroness's Question? But does he not think that we should come nearer home and that the Government should still subsidise the commuter services, because of the heavy increase in fares which is going to take place in the next few months?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I did not quite catch the whole of that question.
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that I support the noble Baroness in her Question? Does he not think that the Government ought still to continue the subsidy on the commuter services and save the people the high fares in the months ahead?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I think it has been the policy of all Governments, so far as the airlines are concerned—and we are talking of international air services here—that the airlines should be viable and should pay their way.
LORD HAWKEMy Lords, are Her Majesty's Government aware that this works out as a restrictive practice in 171 favour of the travel agents, because it makes it uneconomic for anybody to travel abroad without going by package tour through a travel agent?
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, there are obvious advantages in taking what are called the "I.T.X. fares" as part of an inclusive tour deal through travel agents, but this merely illustrates the fact that you must have additional conditions attached before you can offer a cheaper fare. These I.T.X. fares are subject to much more stringent conditions than the ordinary normal public fares.
§ LORD REIGATEMy Lords, are Her Majesty's Government aware that the whole of the IATA fare structure has now become so complex and complicated that many travel agents are not in a position to give their clients proper advice? There are something like fifty different fares across the Atlantic.
§ LORD DRUMALBYNMy Lords, I am painfully aware of how complicated this subject is.