HL Deb 29 June 1971 vol 321 cc156-7
LORD ST. OSWALD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government on what grounds, negative or positive, did the Minister of State, Department of Health and Social Security, aver, speaking on behalf of Her Majesty's Government on 17th June (Hansard, col. 773), that within the United Nations Organisation "Her Majesty's Government have absolutely no standing in the matter"—the matter being the assassination, within Soviet Russia, of 14,500 Polish officer prisoners-of-war, at a time when Poland was an active, loyal and valued ally of this country.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SECURITY (LORD ABERDARE)

My Lords, I meant that we were discussing the murder and disappearance of Polish officers on Soviet territory. I made no reference to the United Nations Organisation.

LORD ST. OSWALD

My Lords, in that case the noble Lord was confusing me, because he had been talking in terms of the United Nations. I must review the Question. In fact, I think that the whole House understood that he was talking in terms of the United Nations.

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I do not know what question I am supposed to be answering now. If the noble Lord looks at my speech, he will see that I never mentioned the United Nations at all.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, in view of that Answer, will the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, not agree that the United Nations Organisation has a locus standi in matters of this kind, within the provisions of the Charter? Although there may be various reasons, some political and some otherwise, for failing to revive this squalid affair, and reasons for suppressing information about it, would he not agree that there is something to be gained by the United Nations Organisation, again within the provisions of its own Charter, seeking information from the Soviet Union in order to expose the facts?

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I am sure that the United Nations Organisation has a locus standi in this matter, but I went to some trouble in the recent debate to try to put on record what were the views of Her Majesty's Government.

LORD ST. OSWALD

My Lords, if my noble friend was not referring to the United Nations, was he in fact saying that this country has no standing whatever in any sphere at all respecting the fate of 15,000 officers at a time when they were in alliance with us and at a time of war? In this event, it would seem to me an even more extraordinary Answer.

LORD ABERDARE

My Lords, I do not think that the noble Lord can have listened to my Answer or to have read it since. I referred to the fact that Her Majesty's Government had no standing in this matter and I explained the reasons for this: that it was a matter of the murder and disappearance of Polish officers on Soviet territory. I went on to speak about the moral question and what were the views of Her Majesty's Government. I really do not think that we can reopen the whole of that debate in a question-and-answer session.