§ LORD CLIFFORD OF CHUDLEIGHMy Lords, as we have just passed a Motion on the Business of the House may I ask the noble Lord the Deputy Leader of the House whether he can help us by telling us how the Government mean to deal with the business this afternoon? It seems as a matter of Parliamentary procedure that there could be a duplication of some sort if the noble Lord, Lord O'Hagan, moves his Motion after the Second Reading. It might then be necessary for one of us to move the previous Question.Erskine May, at page 362, says:
No question or bill shall be offered in either House that is substantially the same as one on which its judgment has already been expressed.Can the noble Earl help us on this point?
§ LORD ABERDAREMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Clifford, for raising this matter. I freely agree that it seems a somewhat strange procedure, but I have taken advice on the matter and in my view our procedure is not out of order as it is set down on the Order Paper; indeed, it has certain practical advantages. The noble Lord quoted from Erskine May. If he looks a little further down on the same page he will see the words: 988
Whether the rule would apply as between a motion and a bill is a difficult matter to decide"."Then it goes on:The question has, however, been raised, but so far without a case for the application of the rule having been made out.So my advice to the House is that this Motion following a Second Reading is not out of order, and I think it has certain practical advantages, in that we have always tried to observe the convention, between the two main Parties, at any rate, that we do not divide against the Second Reading of a Bill for which the Government have had a mandate in a General Election. Yet there may well be some of your Lordships, in dealing with a Bill of this sort—and indeed there were on the Industrial Relations Bill—who wish to register a vote against it. If we proceed as I understand the noble Lord, Lord O'Hagan, intends to proceed in this case, which is that he will move his Motion formally without further debate after the Second Reading, that will give the opportunity to those of your Lordships who feel that we should continue to observe what I think is a useful and valuable convention and at the same time to register your votes on the Motion.However, my Lords, I would suggest that as this is a difficult situation, which has arisen also on the Industrial Relations Bill, it would be advisable if we were to refer the whole matter to the Procedure Committee, and in the meantime to proceed to-day as the business is on the Order Paper.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, I certainly would not disagree that this is a matter which could be sent to the Procedure Committee, but I think it is fair to say, first of all, that the noble Lord, Lord O'Hagan, is not a member of the official Opposition. I think it is also important to point out that his Motion was on the Order Paper before this Bill in fact received a First Reading in this House. I hope that none of us would ever question the right of any individual Member of this House to put down on the Order Paper a Motion that he felt the House ought to consider. I do not know whether the noble Lord, Lord O'Hagan, intends to press his Motion to a Division: that will be entirely up to him.
989 My Lords, while not disagreeing with the suggestion that the matter should be sent to the Procedure Committee I hope it will be the view of this House that nothing should in any way preclude any Member of this House from putting down on the Order Paper anything which he thinks is right and which is within the rules of this House.
§ LORD O'HAGANMy Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lords who have sprung to my defence for their gracious words. I will not make a speech now, but I will explain when I make my speech later on what I am trying to do. All I will say now is that what the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, said about the intention of my Motion was absolutely correct.