§ 2.44 p.m.
§ LORD ROYLEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will set up a Royal Commission, or other appropriate body, to inquire into the supply of water to the nation as a whole.]
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, my right honourable friends the Secretary of State for the Environment and the Secretary of State for Wales are already advised by two statutory bodies: the Water Resources Board and the Central Advisory Water Committee. The Water Resources Board has published a number of reports on water resources strategy up to the end of the century and further reports are being prepared. The Central Advisory Water Committee published a report on the future organisation of water services in 870 April: the Government are studying this and will announce their conclusions shortly. There is a Scottish Water Advisory Committee which advises the Government on Scottish matters. My right honourable friends think these sources of advice are adequate.
§ LORD ROYLEMy Lords, may I thank the noble Lord for his reply, although it is not very encouraging? Is it not a ridiculous situation in the second half of this century that after three weeks of dry weather there are parts of the country in which stand-pipes have to be erected and limitations of supply imposed, while there are other parts of the country that have very adequate supplies of water? Is it not time we looked at this as a real, national problem? Does not the noble Lord think that if any commodity calls out for nationalisation it is water, a subject in which there is no political content at all?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I do not think we need have political content in this matter. We know that the demand for water is going to double very shortly and we need proper organisation. We are dealing with this problem. The two bodies I have referred to, the Water Resources Board and the Central Advisory Water Committee, have these plans, and a Statement from my right honourable friend can be expected before the Recess and probably a Statement on final policy before Christmas. If we take any final decisions they will come into effect at the same time as local government reorganisation, which is planned for 1974.
§ LORD ARWYNMy Lords, may I ask the Government what sources the Water Board have for making an adequate geological survey? How can they assess the water resources without the help of the Director of Hydrological Services?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, these matters are very extensive and complicated, as the noble Lord is probably aware. We have at this moment given permission for the go-ahead of a feasibility study of storage in the Wash; that is now authorised and started. It will cost something like £2 million and will take two years to complete. When it is completed we shall have a lot more information.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, what did the noble Lord mean when he said, in reply to a previous question. that there is no politics in this subject? Did he mean by that that the Conservative Party and the Government would rather see the country grow dry than have a nationalised water supply?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONNo, my Lord. The noble Lord knows full well that we want to have plenty of water for everyone.
§ LORD CLIFFORD OF CHUDLEIGHMy Lords, we do not want to hark back I come from the area where we have stand-pipes and that that situation would not have arisen had it not been for certain obstructionist societies that prevented the necessary dams from being built on time?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON sMy Lords, we do not want to harp back on the past; we want to look ahead to the greatest good will from all authorities.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, arising out of that reply, may I ask whether the prospects of desalinisation will be taken into account, parallel with the two reports which are to be taken into consideration by the Government?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, yes. The construction of a pilot scale desalination plant at Ipswich has been authorised. When results are available from this it will be possible to consider what the role of desalination should be. Difficulties are involved, as the noble Lord will be aware, but we are carrying out this experiment at the moment.
§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORDMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that in deciding the future structure for the water industry there are local government considerations, as well as water industry considerations, and will he bear these in mind when he is reaching his ultimate solution?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, yes. That is why I said that when we finally complete our plans these will take effect at the same time, on April 1. 1974.
§ LORD CONESFORDMy Lords, does my noble friend agree that it is desirable that some beautiful valleys in England and Wales should not be flooded?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONYes, my Lords. I think my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for the Department of the Environment is completely aware of this. He has to weigh all the pros and cons of all the various factors. My noble friend may rest assured that he will be dealing with this point.
§ LORD CLIFFORD OF CHUDLEIGHMy Lords, following on the last question, may I ask whether the noble Lord will ensure that the Government will now reopen the question of making a reservoir at Swincombe?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, that really is another Question.
§ LORD ARWYNMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether the Geological Survey is to be consulted when this feasibility report is finally published? It is a very important matter.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I cannot give a categorical answer to the noble Lord at this moment. I will write to him, and if he wants further information he can have a Written Answer in Hansard.
§ LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORDMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the Water Resources Board consults closely with Geological Survey? Is my noble friend further aware that the Water Resources Board itself, I believe, employs a geologist?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I had a shrewd suspicion that that was the case, but I did not want to give a categorical answer.
§ LORD DAVIES OF LEEKMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he will nevertheless impress upon the Government the need to use that assistance to the full? The noble Lord who has just spoken is well aware that he and I served in dealing with the Water Resources Bill many years ago and that a geologist is available. Nevertheless, much more research is needed into aquefers feeding reservoirs in this country