HL Deb 22 June 1971 vol 320 cc779-81

2.38 p.m.

LORD KENNET

My Lords, I beg to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether the United States Government has kept them informed of the progress of the Strategic Arms Limitation talks; and, if so, whether the Soviet antiballistic missile deployment envisaged in the proposed Soviet-American agreement will or will not confer on the Soviet Union immunity from a second strike by British Polaris submarines.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN)

My Lords, the Strategic Arms Limitation talks are bilateral and are carried on in the strictest confidence. But the United States Government does indeed keep its NATO Allies informed of the progress of these negotiations. I am sure that the noble Lord will agree that we should respect these confidences, and that it would not be appropriate for me to comment on what may or may not emerge from an eventual Soviet-American agreement.

LORD KENNET

My Lords, can the noble Lord go a little further in answering the second part of my Question; that is, whether the screen of anti-ballistic missiles which will appear at the end of these negotiations will or will not deprive this country of its second strike retaliation capacity?

THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN

No, my Lords. I cannot really answer that question, because we do not know exactly what agreement will be reached between the Soviet Union and the Americans regarding their A.B.Ms., quantities or anything else, at this stage. It would be purely hypothetical guesswork on my part.

LORD KENNET

My Lords, would the Government be prepared to go so far as to say what steps they are taking to ensure that the agreement which may emerge will not deprive this country of the effect of the most expensive and powerful part of its defence forces?

THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN

My Lords, I can certainly assure the noble Lord that the point he has in mind is very much in the Government's mind, as well. These and other considerations are naturally paramount in any discussions that we have in NATO.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, is the noble Marquess arguing, that the possibility, indeed the probability, of the Polaris submarines being relegated to a second strike, if there is any likelihood of aggression in which NATO or any of the countries with which we are allied are concerned, is a hypothetical issue?

THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN

No, my Lords; I am not arguing that at all. All I am saying is that, unfortunately, I cannot give the noble Lord, Lord Kennet, a categorical answer to his question to-day, because we do not know what eventual agreement will be reached between the Americans and the Russians.

LORD GLADWYN

My Lords, would not the Government agree that in the unfortunate event of there being no agreement in the Strategic Arms Limitation Talks between the Russians and the Americans, there would be nothing to prevent the Russians from instituting any kind of anti-ballistic missile programme they liked, which might put our own submarines and those of the Americans in danger?

THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN

My Lords, that is quite true, but in view of the joint statement made, I think, on May 20, by the United States and the Soviet Union, I think an agreement will be reached.

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, recognising that the noble Marquess is unable to go too far in answering this Question, would he not agree that if there is agreement between the United States and the Soviet Union, which we should all welcome, this would have a profound effect on the security of Europe, and that clearly the Government must have this in mind? Can the noble Marquess say whether the Government have given any further thought to the bringing about, with the co-operation of our NATO colleagues, of a European security conference so that the two sides would be able to consider how best to deal with the disarmament situation and maintain security in Europe?

THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN

I entirely agree with the sentiments expressed by the noble Lord relating to a security conference. This is something which the Government have strongly in mind at the present time.