§ 2.45 p.m.
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government what progress was made at the meeting of North Sea riparian Governments on sea pollution held in London on June 11.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT (LORD SANDFORD)My Lords, there was a general desire to move as rapidly as possible towards concerted measures to protect the North Sea area from pollution, and it was agreed to exchange proposals on the possible form of an agreement and to join in further informal discussions. The subject will be considered further at a meeting convened by the Norwegians in Oslo in the autumn.
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, can the noble Lord be more specific? A general desire to move towards an undefined object is perhaps vaguer than it might be. Could he define the object towards which there was a general desire to move?
§ LORD SANDFORDYes, my Lords; the object is to protect the North Sea area from pollution.
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, were not a diversity of means to that object considered, and, if so, was any of them preferred above the others?
§ LORD SANDFORDYes, my Lords, a diversity of means were considered to combat and deal with a diversity of causes.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Sandford, could be a little more specific. Is he aware that he is treating a matter about which many of us are very concerned with a certain—shall I say—self-constraint? Perhaps he can tell us what in fact the Government are proposing to do with regard to this matter.
§ LORD SANDFORDNo, my Lords; I assure the House that I am not treating an important matter with anything but the greatest seriousness, as indeed are Her Majesty's Government. A very full communiqué was issued immediately after this meeting, which I have not repeated in full because it would have been tedious to do so. It is a question of approaching a problem which contains a multiplicity of different aspects in a comprehensive manner. This is only the first meeting of this kind, and I think it is unreasonable to expect firm conclusions to have been reached at this early stage. It also would have been a mistake to isolate one important field and to concentrate on that.
§ LORD BURNTWOODMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether this multiplicity of considerations includes—as I hope it does—consideration of metallic effluents causing pollution in the North Sea?
§ LORD SANDFORD: Yes, my Lords, indeed it does.
§ LORD WYNNE-JONESMy Lords, does the noble Lord imply by that answer that lead is included?
§ LORD SANDFORD: Yes, my Lords.
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord what means are to be worked towards for the control of metallic effluents among the nations concerned?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, that is a detail that I cannot go into at the moment. It is a question of the emphasis to be given to all these causes. Some pollutants flow into the North Sea from rivers; others are dumped from ships; others occur in different ways. Until the broad nature of the approach has been settled, we cannot go into detail about how any one particular pollutant should be dealt with.
§ LORD LEATHERLANDMy Lords, would the noble Lord, Lord Sandford, agree that if the Government go on closing down blast furnaces and shipyards at the present rate there will be very little metallic effluent in the North Sea?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, I do not think that that is a way of dealing with the problem.