HL Deb 07 July 1971 vol 321 cc970-2

2.46 p.m.

LORD GARNSWORTHY: My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government the number of children in Scotland who are in receipt of free school meals.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE, SCOTTISH OFFICE (BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELFIELVIE)

My Lords, on May 27 the number was 120,497.

LORD GARNSWORTHY

My Lords, while thanking the Minister for that reply, from which I understand that over 120,000 are taking up school meals, may I ask how that figure compares with the estimate of the number of those entitled to claim free school meals?

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

My Lords, there was no exact estimate, because it was expected that there would be a fall-off, as there always is after examinations and in the height of the summer period, but there has been an increase in free meals from 11.1 per cent. to 13.4 per cent. and a decrease in the meals that are paid for from 30.2 per cent. to 20.4 per cent. I think it is easier to give it in percentages. Therefore, the net decrease over the whole field is from 41.3 to 33.8 per cent.

LORD GARNSWORTHY

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether the figure she quoted of 120,000 does not represent an extraordinarily rapid increase in the number of those obtaining free school meals, in the light of the information given in another place on May 15 which indicated that the number was roughly about 50,000?

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

My Lords, I think that this is a very satisfactory increase in the number of those taking free meals, but of course at the time when the price was raised from 9p to 12p we increased certain social benefits, as no doubt the noble Lord will recall.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, could the noble Baroness clarify this point? Are we using the same terms? I should like to know whether the first number the noble Baroness gave represented the number of those eligible. I want to know the difference between those who are eligible and those who consume.

LORD GARNSWORTHY

My Lords, before the noble Baroness replies, may I draw attention to the terms of my Question, which specifically asks for the number in receipt'? If the estimate is 120,000, then I should certainly be obliged to know the number taking up free school meals.

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

My Lords, I wonder if the noble Lord and the House will look at the terms of my reply and at the Question on the Order Paper. The Question was whether I would give the number of children in Scotland who are in receipt of free school meals. I replied that the number on May 27, when the special survey was taken, was 120,497.

BARONESS SUMMERSKILL

My Lords, when the noble Baroness says "in receipt of", is that equivalent to "eligible"?

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

No, my Lords, it is not, but that was not the Question on the Order Paper. I regret that I did not answer the noble Baroness at the beginning.

LORD GARNSWORTHY

My Lords, may I then, with great respect, ask the noble Baroness whether she will indicate the number of those entitled to free school meals who are in fact in receipt of free school meals?—because I understand that it is claimed that there are 129,000 entitled, but we are not aware of the number who are in receipt.

BARONESS TWEEDSMUIR OF BELHELVIE

My Lords, I would say once again that I have exactly answered the Question on the Order Paper.