§ 3.26 p.m.
§ BARONESS MASHAM OF ILTONMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government why there is no law to compel the provision of seat belts for drivers and passengers of commercial vehicles.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, the fitting of seat belts is compulsory in commercial vehicles up to 1½ tons registered on or after April 1, 1967. Belts are unlikely at present to be so effective in preventing injuries to drivers of heavier vehicles, in which cab strength is a significant factor. The 592 Government intend, however, to reexamine the case for belts when cab strength standards have been established.
§ BARONESS MASHAM OF ILTONMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his reply. Can he tell me the reason for not fitting a third seat belt for the central person on a bench seat of a van up to 30 cwt., and cars with benches, as is obligatory in America?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I do not think the usual commercial vehicle under 30 cwt. normally has a third front passenger in the middle and the Government are loth to legislate unnecessarily.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, if that is the case, is the carrying of a third person in such a vehicle prohibited?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I must ask the noble Lord to let me write to him on that point. At the moment I am not aware of what the position is.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, on that question of bigger vehicles and the strength of the cabin, is it not a fact that seat belts do not necessarily have to rely upon the cabin structure, but rely instead on the floor of the vehicle? Can the noble Lord undertake to look at this matter with great seriousness?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONYes, my Lords. We are always willing to look at this with great seriousness. It is a most important factor. The heavy lorry normally has little in front of the driver. Therefore, injury to the occupants of heavy commercial vehicles is normally total, and a seat belt would not help because the cabin will have been crushed either from in front or from a shifting load behind. Until the Economic Commission for Europe has done its work on cab strengths and seat-belt anchorage points, the Government do not wish to introduce legislation.
BARONESS DARCY (DE KNAYTH)My Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that the seat of a heavy goods vehicle is designed so that the driver has to sit very upright, with no armrests, and therefore tends to lean forward with his forearms on the steering wheel for support? Does the noble Lord 593 not agree that this position makes the wearing of a seat belt particularly necessary?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONYes, my Lords. This is one of the points which the expert committee of the E.C.E. is examining at this moment. When the recommendations are forthcoming they will be regulated for the whole of Europe.
§ LORD SOMERSMy Lords, is not the fact that there is very little in front of the driver of a heavy lorry of extreme importance? Naturally, in a head-on collision the driver would be thrown through the screen, with very serious head injuries; and if he were colliding with something of equal height he would receive even more serious injuries.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I think my noble friend is missing the point that when there is little in front of you the cabin is crushed on impact. If you are in a lighter vehicle and have a hit of a "nose" in front of you, a safety belt has an enormous effect on safety. If you have nothing in front of you and a vehicle crashes into you, the cabin is crushed. This is not the case with cars.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, I thought the object of a safety belt was to prevent the driver or the passenger from being thrown against the windscreen and the steering wheel. Surely this situation exists in a motor lorry as it does in a motor car.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I think that noble Lords are still misunderstanding me—I apologise if I have been incoherent. The effect of a heavy commercial vehicle having a front collision is normally that the cab is crushed and as a result injury takes place. Where the driver's cabin is crushed, a safety belt will have little effect. Serious injuries to drivers of heavy vehicles are almost entirely due to these cases of crushing.
§ THE EARL OF LAUDERDALEMy Lords will the noble Lord say when he expects this European report to be produced?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONYes, my Lords. It is expected within 594 the next two years, and this means that in three years' time vehicles will be coming off the assembly lines throughout Europe bearing all the safety precautions which are necessary. When we have the cab strength right will be the time to incorporate the seat belt requirements.
§ LORD WYNNE-JONESMy Lords, does the noble Lord mean that it will be two years before we know whether a driver sits upright in a cab on the road?
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that he is held in such great affection that if we have the misfortune that the present Government are still in office in three years' time, we hope it will be he who will be able to give us the answer that he is unable to give us now?