VISCOUNT GAGEMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
[The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government, having regard to the consultations now being held between the Minister and Housing Authorities on the subject of housing finance, following his statement on November 3 last, whether he proposes also to consult housing associations and societies, and if so, when.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE, DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT (LORD SANDFORD)My Lords, before answering the noble Viscount's Question I believe the House would like me to take this opportunity of congratulating him on his marriage last week.
§ SEVERAL NOBLE LORDS: Hear, hear!
§ LORD SANDFORDThe answer to the Question, my Lords, is, Yes, certainly. My right honourable friend is now engaged in working out the arrangements which might apply to housing associations and societies under the reform of housing finance. As soon as he has 307 formulated detailed proposals he will discuss them with the bodies representing the housing association movement and with the local authority associations.
§ LORD FISKEMy Lords, I am sure the voluntary housing movement will be very grateful for the reply the Minister has given. But may I ask him, since the Government are looking to the voluntary housing societies to provide rented accommodation in the private sector, whether he will approach these forthcoming consultations with a view to streamlining procedure, so that the societies can get on with the business of providing housing, rather than wasting their time in negotiations and discussions, which are often very controversial, with government at all levels?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, before answering that question, may I congratulate the noble Lord on becoming the President of the Federation concerned, succeeding my noble friend the Lord Privy Seal? The answer to his question is that these considerations will be very much borne in mind.
§ LORD WAKEFIELD OF KENDALMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether the building societies are being brought into these discussions, in view of the very great amount of finance that is provided from that source for housing?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, that, if I may say so, is quite a different question.
§ LORD HOYMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether these discussions are confined to England and Wales, or cover the country as a whole?
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, the changes in the housing finance cover the country as a whole. But, as the noble Lord will remember from November 3, when my right honourable friend the Secretary of State made his original Statement in the other place and I repeated it here, the arrangements in Scotland differ somewhat from arrangements in the rest of the United Kingdom.
VISCOUNT GAGEMy Lords, my noble friend's kindness is such that I could hardly speak in a critical way even if I desired to; but far from it! In this 308 mutual spirit, I thank him for the Answer, which will give a great deal of satisfaction. But I would ask, since these discussions with the local authorities are likely to be protracted, and as there is already evidence in the Department as to these housing associations, whether it is necessary to wait until the completion of these discussions before continuing with the discussions with the housing associations. I have no doubt my noble friend will be aware that at the present moment, in this interim period, the housing associations are in a very difficult position.
§ LORD SANDFORDMy Lords, not necessarily so. It is not necessarily the case that we have to wait for the full completion of negotiations with the local authorities before embarking on negotiations with the housing associations. I am not in a position to commit my right honourable friend the Secretary of State to any particular timing, but I think my noble friend will agree that to have negotiations and consultations with the housing associations before the context in which they are to be carried out has been defined with more clarity would not be particularly fruitful.
§ LORD SHACKLETONMy Lords, while associating myself with the noble Lord's congratulations in all directions, particularly to the noble Viscount, Lord Gage, on his marriage, on which we warmly congratulate him, may I ask the noble Lord whether he is aware that, despite the friendliness of these exchanges, we on this side of the House are gravely anxious with regard to the whole subject of housing finance and are likely to want to debate it at a fairly early stage?