§ 3.8 p.m.
§ LORD GARNSWORTHYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will state under what circumstances planning permission has been given to Sir Alfred McAlpine (Contractors) to exploit a borrow pit at Thorne, in the West Riding of Yorkshire, in connection with the construction of the Thorne By-Pass (M18).]
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, this is a matter for the West Riding County Council, as local planning authority, but I understand that although the contractor intends to use substantial quantities of colliery shale the material from this borrow pit is required for certain purposes in the construction of the road, such as drainage 1161 and embankment, for which shale would not be suitable.
§ LORD GARNSWORTHYMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. May I ask him whether he will please endeavour to ensure that the best possible effort will be made to use the shale from the Hatfield pit half a mile away, which is good quality shale? Would he also have inquiries made to see whether or not the material in the borrow pit is superior to the shale available, with a view to avoiding the despoliation of 23 acres of good agricultural land?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONYes, my Lords; I can reassure the noble Lord. This material is required because it is a bunter sandstone which is suitable for drainage and embankment. The contractor is also hoping to use 1 million to 1½ million cubic yards of colliery shale. The local district council intend that the 23½ acres from which the borrow is being carried out will be made into a marina, and it is reckoned locally in the West Riding that this will be an improvement in the amenities.
§ LORD GARNSWORTHYMy Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the local district council appear to be extremely dissatisfied that no provision has been made in the planning consent that the contractors shall fill the hole with water.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I should like to have further notice of that question. It does not seem to correspond with my information.
§ LORD DAVIES OF LEEKMy Lords, may I, like Dr. Johnson, plead sheer ignorance—and I am probably the only ignorant one in the Chamber at this moment—of the connotation of the words "borrow pit"? I should be delighted to know clearly what we are talking about. What is a borrow pit?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, far be it from me to instruct the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Leek, but the borrow pit here is 23½ acres that has this suitable standstone which is needed for drainage purposes. It is adjacent to the South end of the M.18 extension, by Thorne, and it is therefore economic and useful.
§ LORD POPPLEWELLMy Lords, would the noble Lord have further inquiries made about drainage where shale is in the build-up, because surely in modern road construction drainage can be laid down above the shale? That would enable the roads to be put into an excellent condition and at the same time help considerably in removing the shale heaps that are all over the industrial areas of our countryside.
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, this matter is under consideration. As noble Lords know, thanks to the noble Lord's persistent questioning, the Working Party is due to report in April, and we expect to announce the publication of the recommendations.
§ LORD KENNETMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord to revert to his original Answer, where he said that this was a matter for the local planning authority? Does that mean that the Government have not advised local planning authorities to refuse consent to open borrow pits where the same material can be obtained from an industrial slag heap? Or does it mean that they have so advised local authorities and do not care whether their advice is accepted or not?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, my advice on this matter is that the Department at the moment uses the Institution of Civil Engineers General Conditions of Contract, which places on the contractor the responsibility for finding and supplying material to complete the contract. After we have the Report of the Working Party, and the recommendations, we shall perhaps review the situation in the light of them.
§ LORD HUGHESMy Lords, the noble Lord was asked what a "borrow pit" is. He went into great detail about where the borrow pit was, but he did not say what it was. Am I right in understanding that what happens is that you dig a hole, take the material away, use it in the road, and then go somewhere else and get material to fill the hole up again. Is that where the "borrow" comes from?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, roughly speaking, the noble Lord is correct. In this case the hole will be filled with water. This is a low-lying part of the country.