TRI-SERVICE MANPOWER STATISTICS (Hansard, 23 February 1971)

§ LORD LEATHERLAND
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, the noble Lord's question calls to mind one of our distinguished predecessors who referred to "Lies, damn lies and statistics", and I fear that the substance of the Question is caused by the last of these three options, although the noble Lord might argue that an attribution to one of the former two would appear to be more appropriate. However, my inquiries have shown that the explanation is that female medical and dental officers are recruited direct into the medical and dental corps of the Services, and not via any of the Women's Services. Thus, for simplicity, therefore (though possibly not for punctilious clarification), the statistics to which the noble Lord has referred include these good ladies, alongside their male colleagues, but featured, nevertheless, in the male strength of the Services. I feel sure that any public disquiet which might be induced by this somewhat clinical method of presentation can easily be dispelled by the distinguished medical service which these ladies so excellently give.

§ LORD LEATHERLAND
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his very informative reply. May I ask him this question? Does he not think that, as the first chapter of Genesis tells us "male and female created He them", it is wrong for any Government to try to move Amendments to the pages of Holy Writ? Does not the noble Earl also think that as women are recognised to be the superior sex it is insulting to them that they should be down-graded to the level of men, merely for the sake of rounding off the statistics?

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, the Government have, of course, a holy respect for Holy Writ. Unfortunately, they are not dictated to by the Book of Genesis but rather by the Interpretation Act 1889 which, if I may draw the attention of the noble Lord to it, says in Section 1(a): Words importing the masculine gender shall include females. I think, my Lords, that, roughly translated, that might mean that the male embraces the female.

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, now that the noble Earl has given us to 926 understand that male and female have been brought together, may I ask whether they are paid identical rates of pay?

EARL FERRERS
In certain circumstances, my Lords, but not in all.

§ LORD SHEPHERD
My Lords, can the noble Earl explain briefly what are those circumstances?

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, that, in fact, is another question which I should be delighted to answer and which I could answer, if the noble Lord wishes to delay the House.

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
My Lords, this is very important as these are professional people. As I understand there is no question at all that they would be paid equal pay, is the noble Earl suggesting that he is not sure about a matter of important principle?

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, the conditions of service of female medical doctors and dentists are different in each of the different Services.

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
My Lords, the noble Earl really must do his homework. There is no question about this matter, and I hope he will write to me to-morrow to reassure me. This matter was settled many years ago when the noble Earl was a little boy.

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, I am quite sure that a lot happened when I was a little boy about which the noble Baroness would know far more than I do. If I may reassure her on the point about which she is so agitated, may I say that these people are members of the Medical Corps, or branches of the Services, and they enjoy the same rates of pay, opportunities for promotion and other conditions of service as do men—

§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILL
Ah, my Lords, that is better.

EARL FERRERS
—but there are exceptions.

§ LORD SEGAL
My Lords, would the noble Earl not agree that women medical officers are quite glad to render their medical duties without distinction of sex?

EARL FERRERS
My Lords, I hope so.