CIVIL DEFENCE (POSTS AND TELECOMMUNICATIONS) REGULATIONS 1970 (Hansard, 2 February 1971)

§ LORD DENHAM
My Lords, I beg to move that the Draft Civil Defence (Posts and Telecommunications) Regulations 1970, laid before the House on December 10, 1970, be approved. The purpose of these Regulations is simple. The Post Office, when it was a Government Department, undertook at its own expense—that is to say, at the expense of the Post Office Fund that then existed—various measures to secure its "due functioning", namely, the maintenance of essential public services in the event of hostile attack. The Post Office Act 1969 changed the status of the Post Office to that of a public authority: it was put on the same footing as other nationalised industries. It was then recognised by the Government of the day that it was essential in the public interest that a Minister should be in a position to oblige the Post Office to undertake such necessary work of this sort and to reimburse it for part of the expenditure involved—an arrangement that applies in respect of other public utility undertakings.
These Regulations achieve those ends by giving the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications the power to obtain from the Post Office reports about work done, and work being done to require the Post Office to take such measures as he may specify; and to pay grants in respect of that work. The present level of reimbursement which is fixed by the Treasury for work of this sort carried out by other nationalised industries is 52.75 per cent. of the Ministerially-approved expenses of a capital nature. These Regulations apply the same rate to the Post Office. I hope that this brief explanation will suffice to enable your Lordships to approve these Regulations. I beg to move.

§ LORD STRABOLGI
My Lords, I am sure the House is grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Denham, for moving these 1129 Regulations and for explaining their purpose so clearly. They are, of course, non-controversial and are accepted on this side of the House. There is just one matter on which I am not clear and about which I should like to ask the noble Lord. These Regulations flow from the Civil Defence Acts of 1939 to 1948, but Section 10 of the 1948 Act specifically does not extend to Northern Ireland. Therefore one assumes that these Regulations also do not extend to Northern Ireland. I shall be grateful if the noble Lord will explain what arrangements are being made for similar arrangements in that part of the United Kingdom.

§ LORD DENHAM
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, for the welcome that he has given to these Regulations. It is quite true that they do not extend to Northern Ireland. The responsibility for civil defence against hostile attack in Northern Ireland is a matter for the Government there and is dealt with by them.

§ LORD STRABOLGI
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, but can he tell me what is happening over there? This matter was also raised in the other place and an answer was given, but it was by no means a full one. I am aware that this is a matter for the Government of Northern Ireland, but can the noble Lord say whether similar Regulations are going through the Northern Ireland Parliament?

§ LORD DENHAM
No, my Lords, similar Regulations are not going through the Northern Ireland Parliament. I, too, have read the debate in another place on this subject, and I must say I am rather surprised at what the noble Lord says: that he is not satisfied with the answer that was given there. I thought that my right honourable friend answered very fully the questions on Northern Ireland that were put to him. But I can assure the noble Lord that the Post Office is carrying out the same duties in Northern Ireland. If it should ever happen that the Post Office decided not to carry out those duties, it is possible for my right honourable friend, in conjunction and in liaison with the Parliament of Northern Ireland, to issue a direction to the Post Office on grounds of national 1130 security; and that is embodied in the Post Office Act.

§ LORD SLATER
My Lords, nay I just direct a question to the Minister in regard to Northern Ireland? It must be understood that so far as the Post Office is concerned, and the obligations that are placed upon the Post Office, they cover Northern Ireland as a region of Great Britain. Therefore there is no reason for any separation.

§ LORD DENHAM
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Slater. It is true that Northern Ireland is a region so far as the Post Office is concerned, and the only reason that these Regulations do not extend to Northern Ireland is that the parent Act does not extend to Northern Ireland.