HL Deb 16 December 1971 vol 326 cc1306-8

4.30 p.m.

EARL ST. ALDWYN rose to move. That the amendments made, on an experimental basis, during the last session to Standing Orders No. 48 and 50, relating to divisions, be now permanently adopted, so that the said Standing Order No. 48 reads as follows:— Mode of taking divisions 27 June 1865. 48.—(1) When, on the question being put, a division is called for, the Lord on the Woolsack or in the Chair shall order the Bar to be cleared, and thereupon the Bar and also the division lobbies shall be cleared of strangers, but not the galleries and the space within the rails of the Throne, unless the House shall so order; and the doors at either end of the division lobbies shall be locked. (2) During the three minutes after the Bar has been ordered to be cleared, two Tellers shall be appointed by the Contents and two by the Not-contents, and their names communicated to the Clerk at the Table. (3) If, after the lapse of three minutes, Tellers have not been so appointed either for the Contents or for the Not-contents, a division cannot take place, and the Lord on the Woolsack or in the Chair shall, instead of again putting the question, declare the question decided in favour of the side which has appointed Tellers. (4) After the lapse of three minutes from the time when the Bar is ordered to be cleared the Lord on the Woolsack or in the Chair shall again put the question, and the doors at the exit from each division lobby shall be unlocked. (5) A Lord may vote in a division although he did not hear the question put. (6) On a division, the Contents shall go forth through the door on the right side of the House near the Throne which leads to the right lobby, and shall proceed through the right lobby, and re-enter the House through the door on the right of the Bar; and the Not-contents shall go forth through the door on the left of the Bar which leads to the left lobby, and shall proceed through the left lobby, and re-enter the House through the door on the left side of the House near the Throne. (7) After the lapse of six minutes from the time when the Bar is ordered to he cleared, the doors of the Chamber shall be locked, and the Lord on the Woolsack or in the Chair shall inform the House or the Committee of the question which is the subject of the division. (8) One Teller for the Contents and one for the Not-contents shall be appointed for each division lobby without respect to their degree; and Clerks shall be in attendance in each lobby to record the names of the Contents and Not-contents respectively: the Tellers shall count the votes and announce the numbers to the Lord on the Woolsack or in the Chair.

And that Standing Order No. 50 be amended as follows:—

Line 11, leave out from ("whether") to ("he") in line 13;

Line 14, leave out ("on such question").

The noble Earl said: My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend the Leader of the House, I beg to move the third Motion standing in his name on the Order Paper. As your Lordships will see from the Second Report of the Procedure Committee to which we have just agreed, the Committee believe that the experimental procedures on Divisions which we adopted during the last Session have proved themselves to be satisfactory and we should now adopt them as a permanent basis. I hope that your Lordships will also agree that the Standing Orders should now be made permanent. I beg to move.

LORD SHACKLETON

My Lords, I certainly support what is now proposed. I should like to say only two things. I still have a certain anxiety that noble Lords do not have to be in the House to hear the voices. We have given this method an experimental run. I am not sure that it is long enough, but, even so, I am certain that the procedure is so convenient that we have to accept what I believe to be a real disadvantage. I think, however, that even though I am sure we should make this permanent now, we ought not to exclude the possibility of looking at the procedure again at a later date if we find that there are consequences which lead to different results in a decision of the House.

May I again make a plea that when we wish to make a change in our Standing Orders we suspend the Standing Orders under a Motion of the House, and do not make temporary Standing Orders, as happened in this case?

On Question, Motion agreed to.