§ 4.28 p.m.
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERS-ECRETARY OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN)My Lords, I should like to repeat a Statement made in another place by my right honourable friend, the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. The Statement is as follows:
"The outbreak of hostilities between India and Pakistan is a matter of deep concern to Her Majesty's Government and to all Members of the House. We have watched with growing apprehension over the past months the deterioration in relations between the two countries, stemming from the situation in East Pakistan. Despite our efforts and those of other Powers, India and Pakistan have been driven to the calamity of war. Our immediate concern must now be to try to stop the fighting and to contribute to a sane and civilised solution, that takes account of the wishes of the peoples affected.
"When we heard the first reports of attacks and fighting on the borders of India and West Pakistan on December 3 my right honourable friend the Prime Minister appealed to Presi- 620 dent Yahya Khan and Mrs. Gandhi to do all within their power to prevent the spread of conflict. We are also in touch with other Governments.
"Reports on the military situation are confused. It is clear that extensive fighting is taking place within East Pakistan and on the borders of West Pakistan and India, and that the navies and air forces of both countries are engaged. To the extent that it is possible in modern warfare, it appears that the civilian population has not been the object of attack from the air.
"The House will know that the Security Council met on December 4 and again yesterday to consider the situation. It was clear from the start that any resolution calling for a ceasefire and the withdrawal of forces would attract a Russian veto. For their part, Her Majesty's Government have taken the view that there is nothing to be gained by prematurely attempting to introduce abortive resolutions which are bound to be vetoed by one country or another. We are doing all we can to look for ways of overcoming these difficulties and of finding a solution to the desperately complicated issues which gave rise to the outbreak of war. These efforts have not so far been successful, but we shall continue them. The United Nations must have a role to play, not only in the search for ways to stop the fighting, but also in the immense task of reconstruction that will follow.
"There have been no reports of injury to United Kingdom nationals or damage to United Kingdom property in either India or Pakistan. On November 23 the High Commissioner at Islamabad advised United Kingdom nationals in the border districts of Pakistan to consider moving to safer areas while this was possible. Since the outbreak 621 of the fighting he has taken account of the air raids, the restrictions on movements and the suspension of civil air flights and has advised United Kingdom nationals to stay where they are. No evacuation from Pakistan or India is contemplated at present. I am, however, keeping the situation under review and will take any action necessary.
"War can only be a tragedy for all the people of the sub-continent. I can assure the House that we shall do all within our power to persuade those concerned of this view and of the need to tackle the task of reconciliation."
My Lords, that is the end of the Statement.
§ LORD SHEPHERDMy Lords, the House will be grateful to the noble Marquess for repeating this Statement. The situation seems to he a culmination of many years of fear and suspicion between these countries, and I think it would be wrong for any of us in any way to seek to apportion blame to either side. Certainly I would hope that Her Majesty's Government will make no statement, or do anything, which might in any way diminish what may be an important role for a British Government in mediation between two Commonwealth countries.
We on this side of the House support Her Majesty's Government in their approach at the Security Council, and in particular in not putting forward any resolution of our own at this present moment. I hope the Government will agree that the best course of action now for Her Majesty's Government is quiet work behind the scenes, seeking to bring the various groups within the Security Council together so that they can agree to some resolution that could bring a cease-fire and, in the end, a political settlement in the sub-continent.
I wonder whether the noble Marquess can say anything about a possible arms embargo, and whether any steps could be taken to obtain international support to such an end. I hope that the Government (they may not wish to say so at this moment) are considering ways and means of mounting a considerable aid programme to help not only the many millions who are already in distress but the many more who will be affected as a consequence of the fighting. I presume, 622 too, that Her Majesty's Government are in close contact with the Governments of the Commonwealth, and that throughout this very dangerous and tragic time the Government will always keep Parliament informed upon what is happening.
§ LORD BYERSMy Lords, we share the deep concern which has been expressed by the noble Marquess and also by the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, at the way in which the situation has developed between Pakistan and India. We agree with the Government that the main need now is not for heroic resolutions but for quiet work to try to stop the fighting. May I ask two questions? Are the Government satisfied that we are getting accurate and up-to-date information, and, if not, is there any way of improving the means of communication between India, Pakistan and this country? Secondly, there is a report in the headlines at the moment that five British journalists have been arrested in India. I wonder whether the Minister has anything he can tell us about that.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF INCHRYEMy Lords, may I ask one question? Does this terrible situation interfere seriously with the relief work which is going on through Oxfam and other organisations? —because such relief work will be needed more than ever at the present time.
§ THE MARQUESS or LOTHIANMy Lords, may I answer those noble Lords who have spoken so far? I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Shepherd and Lord Byers, for the way they have received this Statement. I can assure them that I entirely agree that, as I think the Statement says, quiet diplomacy in the United Nations behind the scenes is likely, if anything, to produce the best results; and this is what we are obviously continuing to do.
The noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, asked me two or three questions. One concerned the supply of arms and the possibility of an embargo. I can tell him that this is under consideration at the moment by my right honourable friend in the context of what we are trying to do at the United Nations. I entirely accept his remarks about the need for aid, particularly if and when we get a settlement. We are keeping in touch with the Commonwealth Governments on these matters, especially 623 those who are most concerned in the area. Of course Parliament will also be kept informed as to any developments.
The noble Lord, Lord Byers, asked me a question which it is a little difficult to answer, as to whether we were satisfied at the amount of information that we are getting. I would not say that one was entirely satisfied, but the position is extremely difficult at the moment. We are looking into it to see whether we can get quicker and more accurate reports. The noble Lord also asked me a question about the five journalists. I understand that the position is (this is what we heard this morning) that these Live journalists have been arrested and have been charged, so we understand, under the Official Secrets Act of India. The High Commission is engaged in efforts in trying to secure their release on bail, but I am afraid that I cannot tell the noble Lord any more at this moment. Naturally our efforts in this regard will continue.
My noble friend Lord Balfour of Inchrye raised a most important point. I think it is impossible to tell him precisely how the fighting is affecting the question of aid to refugees. This obviously depends on where the action is taking place. I am sure the noble Lord will appreciate that this is something that we are watching very carefully, and that we shall give any assistance that we can.
§ BARONESS LEE OF ASHERIDGEMy Lords, it distresses me if, in anything I say, I find myself having to disagree in any way with a statement that has been made by my colleague, for whom I have the greatest affection and respect. But I find it hard to accept the point of view that we are completely neutral as between India and Pakistan, keeping in mind that there was a democratically elected Government in East Pakistan that was set aside by a military junta. I am sure that everyone in your Lordships' House is agreed that what we want to do is to see an end to the fighting and to give the maximum aid. But I think the world in general has done very little compared with the scale of the need. What I cannot agree to is that there is no difference at all between the attitude of India and that of Pakistan. India had 10 million or 11 million refugees. They had to go back to East Pakistan—
§ BARONESS LEE OF ASHERIDGE—and they could not go back in present circumstances.
THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (EARL JELLICOE)My Lords, I respect the sincerity and depth of the noble Baroness's feelings on this matter, but I think it would be more in accordance with our normal proceedings if she could now ask my noble friend a question.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, I think I should have said to the noble Lord, Lord Shepherd, on behalf of the Government, that I agree with him that to apportion blame for this particular outbreak of fighting would not be the wisest course at the present time. At the same time, we have always said that a political solution is what is needed in East and West Pakistan, and of course this is something for which we shall strive. But I think the House will agree that we must, first of all, attempt to get the fighting stopped.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, does the Minister recollect that on a number of occasions I have urged Her Majesty's Government to take action and have warned them that it might be too late? Tragically, that now appears to be the case. While recognising that many of us have strong views about the issues which have led to the war, may I ask whether the Minister is aware that many of us also now take the view that the overriding need is to bring the hostilities to an end at the earliest possible moment? In addition. may I ask the Minister this question, which I ask very seriously? In view of the deadlock which has occurred in the Security Council, and which is likely to occur in the General Assembly, will Her Majesty's Government consider two suggestions which might help towards ending this situation? The first is to put the embargo on arms supplies all round, balancing the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe with the U.S.A. and China, to which reference has already been made. Secondly, and more positively, will the Government consider the appointment of a Commission of good offices, composed of representatives of uncommitted nations—one can think of Canada or, in Europe, Sweden or Yugoslavia, or one of the Islam nations of 625 North Africa—to seek a cease-fire combined with a political solution in East Bengal, enabling the refugees to return? Will the Minister consider those two suggestions, which are put forward very seriously in the hope that they may contribute to the ending of the war?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANCertainly, my Lords; I recognise the sincerity that lies behind the noble Lord's two suggestions. Of course I undertake to consider them in the spirit in which he has placed them before your Lordships' House, and to pass his suggestion on to my right honourable friend. But I think the House will agree that perhaps the time for that has not quite come. We must still continue our efforts in the United Nations. I am not yet convinced that that is not the way to find a solution.
§ LORD SHINWELLMy Lords, is it possible to be realistic about this tragic affair? Is the noble Marquess aware that no-one doubts that the Government will use all their power to bring this affair to an end? But is the noble Marquess also aware of the attitude of the Soviet Union, supporting India; of China, supporting Pakistan; and of the United States not knowing where it is, and being in a complete muddle? In that situation, what hope is there of any of the uncommitted nations using influence, if they have any, to bring this affair to an end? Is it not obvious that what should have been done by the Security Council was to act before it began? It now appears to be a bit too late. Nevertheless, is the noble Marquess aware that everybody in this House as well as everybody outside, both in this country and elsewhere, will support the Foreign Secretary and the British Government in the Security Council adopting a realistic attitude and facing the facts, in order to convince the Security Council. China, Russia and the United States—the great Powers—that it is to their advantage, as well as to the advantage of India, Pakistan and the whole world, to bring peace?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. I think we all share the views expressed in the latter part of his intervention. I am not myself certain that it would have made any difference if the Security Council had been involved earlier, but this is a matter of judgment 626 and argument. But certainly I take the noble Lord's point about what we must do now.
§ LORD GORE-BOOTHMy Lords, may I, as one who was in the middle of one of these disputes some years ago, suggest with great sympathy to the noble Lord who spoke last that there is quite unbelievable tenacity about this historic dispute which goes on in that sub-Continent? In that connection, may I ask the noble Marquess whether he would care to comment at all on the possibility of the matter going to the General Assembly, if the deadlock in the Security Council persists?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, this is certainly a distinct possibility. I should not like to say how probable it is, but if the deadlock persists in the Security Council it may be that the matter will be referred to the General Assembly.
§ VISCOUNT AMORYMy Lords, does my noble friend agree that it is very sad that, contrary to the hopes of so many of us 25 years ago, events have developed in such a way that it is to-day unrealistic to hope that the Commonwealth collectively can arbitrate in a dispute like this? Looking hack to 25 years ago, many of us hoped that when a tragic situation of this kind arose the Commonwealth collectively might be able to do something helpful about it. Does my noble friend agree that it would be a marvellous thing if we could only get back to some situation like that?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANYes, my Lords. I think my noble friend was quite right when he said in his opening remarks that we had gone beyond that stage. It is unfortunate, but I think what lie said is true.