HL Deb 20 April 1971 vol 317 cc525-6

2.45 p.m.

VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDS

My Lords. I beg leave to ask the second Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is agreeable to their or anybody else's political philosophy to allow the British Waterways Board to start a service of water-buses between Paddington and Camden Town on the Regent's Canal, which will be run, like their zoo water-buses, at a loss, in direct competition with profit-making private enterprise firms who are their own tenants and whom they can charge operating charges of any size they see fit.]

LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON

My Lords, the operation of this service is within the Board's statutory powers. They expect to run it, like their zoo water-bus service, at a profit.

VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDS

My Lords, again expressing some amazement at that Answer, may I ask whether the noble Lord is aware that the expectation of running zoo buses at a profit has never come to fruition? Does he really believe that anybody in this House—particularly his noble friends behind him—will be happy at what is being done? This is contrary to the provisions of the first nationalisation Act where such an action would have been impossible.

LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON

My Lords, I am sorry to keep amazing the noble Lord. The fact of the matter is that since 1967 the service has been running at a profit. In 1970 there was a profit of £2,500.

VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDS

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the Government leave out of their accounts a large number of items which private enterprise normally enters into its accounts, such as depreciation, licences and so on?

LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON

My Lords, I really do not know how the noble Lord can know all this if he did not know whether the service was making a profit. I am advised that the profit was worked out after the deduction of central charges, interest, licensing and mooring charges.

VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDS

My Lords. will the noble Lord please try to produce somewhat better answers on waterways subjects in view of the fact that "wind on the heath" is now a nautical expression?

LORD CONESFORD

My Lords, are the Government aware that in the previous Question the noble Viscount complained that the British Waterways Board had been filled with dismay, and that his present Question is designed to fill them with dismay? What does he want?

LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTON

My Lords, that is indeed a very wide question.