EGGS (GUARANTEED PRICES) ORDER 1971

HL Deb 20 April 1971 vol 317 cc597-600

6.14 p.m.

LORD DENHAM rose to move, That the Egggs (Guaranteed Prices) Order 1971, be approved. The noble Lord said: My Lords, I think it would be for the convenience of your Lordships if I spoke also to the Eggs (Protection of Guarantees) Order 1971 which immediately follows this present Order. These two Orders give statutory backing to the new arrangements for the egg subsidy which were announced in the recent Annual Review White Paper. These arrangements are intended to cover the interval between the demise of the British Egg Marketing Board and the ending of the subsidy in 1974.

Comparing the new Guaranteed Prices Order with the Order it replaces, one sees that the main changes are that the subsidy will now be payable to producers of eggs instead of to the Egg Board, and will be expressed as the difference between the guaranteed price and an "estimated producer price" instead of the difference between the guaranteed price and an "indicator price". This change is necessary because the indicator price was defined as the price the Board would receive in a market which was neither over-supplied nor under-supplied. Under the new arrangements, as under the old, eggs must be tested and found to be of first quality (or dirty, but otherwise first quality) if they are to be eligible for subsidy; but whereas under the old system the eggs had to be packed by the Board, now they may either be packed by the producer himself, if he is a registered packer, or be sold by the producer to a registered packer.

Apart from minor redrafting to remove references to the Egg Board the new Protection of Guarantees Order resembles the old one. The producer who sells eggs to a registered packer will receive his subsidy automatically at the same time as he receives payment from the packer for the eggs. The packer will be paying out the subsidy to producers under the terms of a contract with the appropriate agricultural Minister. The "mechanics" of the subsidy arrangements for 1971–72 have been agreed upon with the farmers' unions, and I am sure that the industry will find they have been kept as simple and convenient as possible. My Lords, I beg to move.

Moved, That the Eggs (Guaranteed Prices) Order 1971, be approved.—(Lord Denham.)

LORD BESWICK

My Lords, noble Lords on this side of the House are ready to agree to these two Orders. I suppose it is fair to say that they follow changes announced by the previous Administration. Our approach to the levy system was somewhat different from that displayed by the present Administration. We thought that we should be rather more cautious and should try out the possibilities of a levy system as against support prices; and I am sorry that the present Administration appear to be committed to a wholehearted, sweeping extension of this way of dealing with commodities. We were against dogma in agricultural policy, and I regret the readiness with which the present Administration are adopting, or appear to be adopting, their own dogma to commodities other than eggs.

I am not certain that the system which we are now bringing into operation, phasing out the egg subsidies, really justifies a wholehearted extension of the levy system. Prices that are now being paid are higher. The noble Lord spoke about quality; I doubt whether there are many housewives in the country who would accept that for the higher prices they are getting improved quality. I find in two or three cases out of ten that when I take an egg out of the refrigerator my fingers go through the shell, so thin-shelled is the product of the battery hen. I am not sure that I can blame that on the present Administration or the noble Lord, Lord Denham, but it is something which ought to be borne in mind by those whom one would expect to benefit under the new system which the noble Lord is proposing to introduce.

LORD HOY

My Lords, may I ask one question regarding the Interpretation Clause? I do not know whether it is a repeat of the old one, but I see that it states: 'certified' in relation to cluck eggs means certified to be of first quality or dirty but otherwise of first quality by a person appointed by the Minister for the purpose. I should like to know whether the noble Lord can give us any information about who this person is to be. If one turns to page 2 of the Order one sees that "duck eggs" means, eggs in shell laid by domestic ducks and they have to be laid in the United Kingdom by these domestic ducks. That is made perfectly clear by the Order. It also states: 'first quality' in relation to duck eggs, means fresh and free from taint, the shells being clean and unstained, sound and of good texture and shape, the contents being free from visible blemish and discolouration, the yolk being central and translucent and the white being translucent with the air space not exceeding one-quarter of an inch in depth. I should like to know who is the person who is going to be appointed to look at these eggs to find whether the yolk is floating about in the middle, in a translucent state with an air space a quarter of an inch in depth. I am sure that your Lordships would be delighted if the noble Lord could give us that information.

LORD DENHAM

My Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, and the noble Lord, Lord Hoy, for their comments on these Orders. I may tell the noble Lord, Lord Beswick, that we do not expect the prices of eggs to rise unduly as a result of this Order. I take note of what he said about the quality: the maintenance of quality is very much in the mind of my right honourable friend. I am afraid that I cannot follow the noble Lord, Lord Hoy, in the lyrical quality of his remarks about duck eggs.

LORD HOY

My Lords, I do not want to interrupt the noble Lord but I would point out that the lyric quality was not in my remarks but in the Order. I would only ask the noble Lord to tell me what the lyrics mean.

LORD DENHAM

My Lords, perhaps it was the beatutiful voice in which the noble Lord read them. One thing the noble Lord mentioned was the air space in eggs. Of course, he will know that the amount of air space is one of the means of telling the freshness of an egg. I will not go through all of the noble Lord's points. I am afraid I cannot give him at the moment the names of the persons who would be appointed to certify duck eggs but my right honourable friend would see to this. But I feel sure that if my right honourable friend reads the comments of the noble Lord, it will be very much to his advantage.

On Question, Motion agreed to.