HL Deb 28 October 1970 vol 312 cc106-9

3.4 p.m.

LORD INGLEWOOD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware of the widespread sadness and disappointment of the four Northern counties of England over the loss of identity of their three County Regiments, the Northumberland Fusiliers, the Border Regiment and the Durham Light Infantry; and of the added pain which is given by the increasing publicity and recruiting activities of a Scots regiment on the English side of the Border, including a display with a pipe band within the walls of Carlisle Castle; and whether they will give instructions that all such recruiting efforts, whether by English or Scots regiments, should, as a general rule, take place on their own side of the Border.]

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENCE (LORD CARRINGTON)

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government naturally regret the loss of those County Regiments and understand the feelings expressed by my noble friend and, of course, I share them. However, the Scots Guards, the Scottish regiment to which he refers, have by tradition lasting nearly 300 years drawn a proportion of their recruits from County Durham and parts of Cumberland and Lancashire. Account is always taken of local loyalties, and I would assure my noble friend that there is no new significance in the recent recruiting activities of the Scots Guards in the Northern Counties of England. In the circumstances, I hope that he will accept that no new instructions need be given.

LORD INGLEWOOD

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for the long reply. May I ask whether he is aware that he and not I mentioned the name of the Scots regiment? I did not mention it because I did not want to stir up any ill-feeling between regiments, since we have few enough of them in the country today. Is he also aware that whereas the North of England would be perfectly happy with modest recruiting efforts for all regiments based in any part of the United Kingdom, the increasing activity by one regiment—which is the basis of my Question—is something that completely ignores the feelings in the North of England, which is not just a characterless region somewhere between the Horse Guards and the Scottish Border.

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, I will look into what my noble friend says. I do not think there has been any significant increase. It would be a very good thing for us to get as much publicity as possible for the Army. My noble friend himself says that we are short of recruits, and I should have thought that the more people we can get to join the Army the better. I might add that this is rather welcome; just for once the English are taking over a bit of Scotland.

LORD INGLEWOOD

My Lords, with further reference to my noble friend's answer, may I say— and I am sorry to have to say this—that it appears that he just docs not understand the feelings of the North of England.

VISCOUNT TENBY

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that last time the hostile Scots invaded England, in'46, only 300 men, all from the four Northern Counties, joined the Jacobites? When the Scots retreated back to Scotland they left the 300 English in the fortress of Carlisle. Most of them were hanged for their pains. Is not this a terrible precedent to present to young men with a thirst for glory, who are beguiled and seduced by the undoubted glamour, splendour, pageantry and glory of Scottish regiments?

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, that is very interesting, but I would really rather keep out of it.

VISCOUNT ST. DAVIDS

My Lords, would the noble Lord consider encouraging the Welsh regiments to recruit in the London area, and other parts of England, in view of the enormous numbers of Welshmen in these parts who have been generalised over these areas by the scandalous policies of previous Conservative Governments which have not allowed them to get a decent living in Wales?

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, anything the noble Lord can do to encourage recruiting will be greatly welcomed.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, in the matter of the Durham Light Infantry, mentioned in the Question, is it not the case that the previous Government decided to reduce this very gallant regiment to company strength?

LORD INGLEWOOD

No. They abolished it.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, I am asking a question. In view of the Government's decision to reverse a great deal of the policy of the late Government in matters that are not worth while, would they consider reversing the decision and reconstituting the Durham Light Infantry up to battalion strength?

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, the previous Administration were going to abolish nine units. Recently, I announced to your Lordships that we were not going to see those nine regiments abolished, but that we were going to continue to allow them to continue at company strength; and when manpower is sufficient we hope we shall build on them. I have done exactly what the noble Lord suggested in reversing his Government's previous decision.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, to allow them to continue at company strength is no use whatever. It is only a cadre. What is the use of that? Unless there are ample reserves available you might as well abandon the regiment altogether.

LORD CARRINGTON

My Lords, it will not have escaped the noble Lord's notice that company strength is slightly larger than nothing.