§ 2.43 p.m.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will support the twenty-four Governments and the Vatican in furthering the proposal for a European conference on security and reductions in armed forces.]
§ THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN)My Lords, Her Majesty's Government would see advantage in a Conference provided that it had a reasonable prospect of resolving issues of substance. NATO Governments offered discussions on mutual and balanced force reductions in Europe as long ago as June, 1968; but the Warsaw Pact Governments have so far ruled this subject out of the agenda for a Conference. We are pursuing consultations in NATO and seeking clarification of Warsaw Pact views.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, while welcoming the first sentences in that reply, may I ask the noble Marquess this question? Will Her Majesty's Government bear in mind, in the conversations with Mr. Gromyko, that many of us regard this as the great break-through for peace both in Europe and the world? And is it not the case that the Soviet Government and the Warsaw Pact Governments 6 have met the objections which have been urged, including the representations of America and Canada, and that they propose a conference of the Governments concerned at a meeting which will decide the Conference agenda without any conditions.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, I will certainly undertake to pass on to my right honourable friend the noble Lord's observations about the conversations that are taking place with Mr. Gromyko, and I am certain that he will bear them in mind. The reservations that we have so far had about this Conference have been purely a matter of clarification as to what the Conference is about. But I will certainly take into account what the noble Lord has said.
§ LORD GLADWYNMy Lords, if there is to be a Conference on European security, will the Government see to it at least that the agenda includes a discussion of the so-called "Brezhnev doctrine" whereby the Soviet Union claim the right to intervene, by force if necessary, in support of socialist régimes anywhere in the world? Would not the Government agree that so long as this doctrine is upheld there is scarcely likely to be any real long-term security in Europe?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that observation. I am certain that this is one of the matters that will be borne in mind when the NATO Ministers meet in December to discuss this problem.
§ LORD BROCKWAYMy Lords, following the intervention of the noble Lord, Lord Gladwyn, may I ask: is it not the case that Communist countries in the East are welcoming this proposal for a Conference because it will facilitate the withdrawal of the Russian troops and greater liberalisation in their territories?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, I am quite certain that the Warsaw Pact countries welcome the idea of this Conference and, as I said in my original Answer, the Government here also welcome it in principle. All we are interested in at the moment, and to some extent concerned with, is, as I have said before, to get clarification from the Warsaw Pact countries as to exactly how and what they wish to discuss.
§ LORD CHALFONTMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether he will agree that one of the positions the Government have taken consistently throughout these discussions has been that this Conference should take place with no preconditions? Is this not somewhat in conflict with the position now being taken, that it should be held on condition that certain things are discussed? Will he accept that we in this side of the House recognise the difficulties of arranging such a Conference, and will he assure us that in conversations that are going on in NATO Her Majesty's Government will do their utmost to bring about such a Conference which is so important for European security?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIANMy Lords, I think I can give the noble Lord the assurance that Her Majesty's Government will take into account exactly what he said.
§ LORD GLADWYNMy Lords, is it really the intention of the Government to embark on a Conference which has no agenda? Is that not a certain recipe for disaster?