§ LORD BROWNMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
§ [The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that research carried out within the Mayo Clinic, U.S.A. suggests a simple test to discover those automobile drivers particularly prone to fall asleep at the wheel, and whether they will undertake to explore the possibility of using such tests in this country in order to reduce the incidence of cross-over motorway accidents.]
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I understand that the test referred to was evolved primarily for people suffering from the rare disease of narcolepsy. A recent study by the Road Research Laboratory of a sample of drivers falling asleep at the wheel indicated that they were medically normal. The Government's recent decision to install crash barriers on the central reservations of about 1,000 miles of motorway is the most effective way of preventing 739 cross-over accidents; we do not consider that the introduction of a test of the kind suggested would produce savings in accidents at all commensurate with its cost.
§ LORD BROWNMy Lords, I cannot thank the noble Lord for what I regard as an extremely unsatisfactory reply. Is he aware that we are exercising very much greater care on eyesight tests for drivers, to eliminate hazards that are much less than those which might be eliminated if the Mayo Clinic's research findings were investigated in this country? Will the noble Lord please go back to his Minister and ask him whether this matter can be properly and seriously considered as a matter of public safety?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONYes, my Lords, of course I will go back to the Minister on any matter, if the noble Lord requests me to do so. But our information at the moment is not such as to indicate that any sizeable number of accidents is due to natural sleepiness in drivers. To save probable further questions from the noble Lord, I may tell him that tests have been done by the Road Research Laboratory, and it was shown that out of a total of 733 serious accidents which took place perhaps 3 per cent. were caused through a driver falling asleep. All of these happened either at night or in the early morning. More than half of those drivers had missed a night's sleep or part of a night's sleep, and 13 out of 20 drivers concerned had also taken alcohol. So I think the evidence shows that a combination of not enough sleep and taking alcohol is the chief reason.
§ LORD BROWNMy Lords, there seems to be a little dispute about the evidence here. Is the noble Lord aware that The Times about three months ago published a report which indicated that cross-over accidents were primarily due to mechanical faults, and that the two secondary equal causes were, first, skidding and, secondly, falling asleep or nearly asleep at the wheel? May I also ask the noble Lord whether he is aware of the standing of the Mayo Clinic in research matters of this, kind?
§ BARONESS SUMMERSKILLMy Lords, may I ask the noble Lord whether 740 he would not agree with me that it is quite unnecessary to go to the Mayo Clinic to discover the effect of over-eating and over-drinking?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONYes, my Lords, I think we should agree with the noble Baroness's suggestion. As regards the question asked by the noble Lord, I have a copy of the Mayo Clinic's report here, and I have read the whole of it. I agree; we are well aware of the importance of the finding, and it is a very thorough medical examination. It was chiefly, as I have said, a test on narcolepsy. The Ministry are certainly looking at this problem, but at the moment the effects of having to carry out this test would be out of all proportion if every person asking for a licence annually had to undergo it. There is one other point I would make. Anyone prone to nearly falling asleep is bound, in his annual application for a licence, to say that he is suffering from some defect.
§ LORD WYNNE-JONESMy Lords, as the noble Lord has read the report from the Mayo Clinic, would he not agree that they distinguish quite clearly between the clinical tests on the diseased condition and the pupilographic tests which will show defects which are not revealed by normal clinical examination? Is it not therefore essential that in this country we should at least have a similar investigation carried out in order to make certain that a proper examination is made of all those who drive? If I may continue on this matter, would the noble Lord not also agree that defects of vision are extremely serious in drivers even when they do not result in accidents?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Wynne-Jones, is quite correct. The Mayo Clinic has differentiated between the various degrees; and I have read all about the five degrees of sleepiness and the various forms it takes. But I must ask your Lordships to remember that there are something like over 7 million drivers applying annually for licences. To put all those 7 million people through a test would be prohibitively expensive in both time and money.
§ LORD BLYTONMy Lords, could the noble Lord assure me that this research 741 will not be applied to the House of Lords?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONYes, my Lords.
§ LORD SEGALMy Lords, would the noble Lord consider whether, in order to prevent the incidence of this type of accident, motorists who find themselves compelled to draw up to the hard shoulder of a motorway should not be liable to prosecution by the police, since the number of lay-bys on the majority of motorways is totally inadequate?
§ LORD MOWBRAY AND STOURTONMy Lords, I am speaking completely from my own memory, but I seem to recall that we were told about 18 months or two years ago that if motorists pulled in for a rest or in order to walk around and get fresh air they would not be prosecuted by the police; but I must stress that I am speaking purely from my own memory on this matter.
§ LORD SEGALMy Lords, since on one occasion I myself was subjected to such a prosecution, would the noble Lord reconsider the whole question?