HL Deb 10 November 1970 vol 312 cc603-4

3.33 p.m.

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, I beg to move the Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.

Moved, That leave be given to the Lord Carrington to advance the Second Reading of the Armed Forces Bill from Tuesday the 17th to Thursday the 12th of November; and that leave be given to the Lord Shackleton to advance his Motion on the Government's Economic Measures from Wednesday the 18th to Tuesday the 17th instant.—(Earl Jellicoe.)

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl to offer a few words by way of clarification? I was always under the impression (the noble Earl will correct me if I am wrong) that this matter was concerned with the numbers in a standing Army, over which this House has no control at all; it is entirely a matter for the other place. I was always under the impression that the matter had first to come before the other place. Am I right in this assumption? Moreover, five years having expired since the matter was last considered, ought not a Select Committee to be appointed to consider it? Perhaps the noble Earl will afford the clarification of which I am very much in need.

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, I am always anxious to give the noble Lord, Lord Shinwell, any clarification for which he is looking, but I think that at this particular moment it would not be right for me to go into the areas which he has touched on because the Motion which I have just moved is seeking to do no more than rearrange business which has already been tabled; and I understood through the usual channels that these rearrangements commanded general agreement. If I may say so, the point of substance on which the noble Lord, Lord Shinwell, has questioned me—the question whether a Bill should be before your Lordships' House or before another place—is one which should more properly be taken on the Motion that the Bill be read a second time, and I should be very glad to go into it at that time. But whatever the merits, my Lords—and I do not wish to argue that either way at the present time—the Bill in question is before your Lordships' House at this moment, and it is for your Lordships, I would suggest, to decide on Second Reading what should happen to the Bill.

LORD SHINWELL

My Lords, as the noble Earl is apparently in as much need of clarification and information as I am, I am quite prepared to leave it until Thursday.

EARL JELLICOE

My Lords, if I may say so with all respect, the noble Lord, Lord Shinwell, is misinterpreting what I said. I was merely saying that this was not the moment to give the noble Lord the clarification for which he was asking.

On Question, Motion agreed to.