HL Deb 07 May 1970 vol 310 cc299-301
LORD FRASER OF LONSDALE

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they are aware that some 12,000 ships rounded the Cape between May and October, 1969; that half called at South African ports; also since the closing of Suez in July, 1967, to the end of last year, that 121 British warships and 40 British fleet auxiliaries used the Simonstown Naval Base, and that during the same period 131 British naval vessels used other South African ports; and whether Her Majesty's Government realise the importance of these facilities to British prosperity and even to her survival.]

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENCE, R.A.F. (LORD WINTER-BOTTOM)

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government are well aware of the importance to our trade of the Cape Route, and of the facilities afforded by South African ports.

LORD FRASER OF LONSDALE

My Lords, can the noble Lord say whether Her Majesty's Government are in consultation with, and possibly offering cooperation to South Africa, Australia and New Zealand in studies to prepare for the protection of this lifeline in case it is needed?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, all I can say is that the Simonstown Agreement, which, as the noble Lord knows, runs for an indefinite period, is the basis on which we consult with South Africa for the external defence of that part of the world.

LORD BOOTHBY

My Lords, arising out of that answer, may I ask the noble Lord whether he has seen Simonstown lately? I have seen it, and it is a rather pathetic basis for the protection of our vital trade at that particular part of the world.

LORD GRIMSTON OF WESTBURY

My Lords, is it the policy of Her Majesty's Government, in the interests of Britain, to try to retain an atmosphere of good will between ourselves and South Africa rather than the atmosphere of ill-will which is being engendered in many quarters?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I should be dishonest if I were to say that the situation is an easy one, but so far as the specific problem mentioned in the Question is concerned, the Simonstown Agreement is in operation, and is operating well.

THE EARL OF SWINTON

My Lords, having made the Simonstown Agreement, may I ask the noble Lord whether Her Majesty's Government are now carrying out the undertaking to supply the vessels which were part of that Agreement?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I cannot give the noble Lord an answer on that point. If he cares to put a Question down I will reply to it.

LORD BLYTON

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that whatever treaties we make with any part of the Commonwealth or any foreign nation it does not presuppose that we should accept their internal policies?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I think that is another question.

LORD BARNBY

My Lords, in regard to this broad question, can the noble Lord give an indication as to whether the frigates on the Beira Patrol are making use of South African ports for refitting?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, Simonstown is used mainly for ships on passage to or from the Far East, and one can assume that ships going through the Beira Patrol would also pass through Simonstown, if necessary.

LORD MERRIVALE

My Lords, the Question shows the importance of Simons-town in relation to warships. Can the Minister say to what extent the French are increasing their influence, numbers of technicians and supply of equipment to Simonstown?

LORD WINTERBOTTOM

My Lords, I cannot answer for the French Government.

LORD MERRIVALE

My Lords, I was asking the noble Lord to what extent they are eroding our influence in that area.

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