HL Deb 24 March 1970 vol 308 cc1329-31
LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

[The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what further progress has been made in preventing or diminishing drastically the emission of exhaust smoke and fumes from cars and heavy vehicles; whether devices are now available in this country, as in the U.S.A., to prevent this nuisance and danger to health; and whether manufacturers of all vehicles can be induced to provide these in all new products.]

THE MINISTER OF STATE, FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE (LORD SHEPHERD)

My Lords, research by the motor industry and by Her Majesty's Government into the control of motor vehicle emissions is a continuing process, and United Kingdom manufacturers currently produce equipment for export models which meets the American requirements. My right honourable friend the Minister of Transport is now considering all aspects of policy in regard to motor vehicle emissions, including what additional devices should be required by law.

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether that means that there is included in this research the particular device (which I understand is very effective although it still needs some improvement) to which I referred in my Question?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, we are considering all aspects of the particular device to which the noble Lord referred and which reduces the matter by about 20 per cent. But in the light of our present problems in this country that is only a very marginal decrease.

LORD POPPLEWELL

My Lords, could ray noble friend give any indication when he hopes that consideration will come to an end and action will be taken? This is a matter that has been going on for a long time and one suspects that there is not quite the good will behind this research to get effective action. Can my noble friend say when a decision will be reached?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, I cannot give an indication when a decision will be made; but having regard to the concern I think I should say that in the view of Her Majesty's Government and their medical advisers there is no danger in British cities in this matter.

LORD GARNSWORTHY

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he can comment on the accuracy or otherwise of a statement in an article in the Sunday Times of February 15 which said that Britain had not yet adopted even the mild anti-emission rules now current in Germany and France, and whether the consideration that he has indicated as being given to this problem includes the possibility of adopting similar rules?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, naturally we are looking at all devices and whatever rules and regulations may be made. As I said earlier, the present circumstances are not such that we should take great concern in it so far as public health is concerned.

LORD NUGENT OF GUILDFORD

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that improvement in this situation depends to some extent upon the co-operation of the oil industry in altering the composition of the petrol used; and would he say whether the oil industry is giving its co-operation in this field?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, my right honourable friend will certainly be consulting with all parties in this matter. I hope that a White Paper will be issued under the auspices of my right honourable friend, Mr. Crosland, but I cannot give a date.

LORD SWANSEA

My Lords, apart from the research which the noble Lord mentioned, could he say whether research is also proceeding into an efficient and economic alternative to the internal combustion engine?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, a good deal of research is going on in this matter, but I think that those who know will appreciate that the possibility of replacing the internal combustion engine is a long way away.

LORD SORENSEN

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether the Government appreciate that this is a very urgent matter; and in view of the ever-increasing number of cars and vehicles emitting smoke and fumes the atmosphere in congested areas is becoming so toxic as to be dangerous to the population?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, I have been trying to keep my supplementary answers short, but in view of what my noble friend has said and the alarm which may come from it I should point out that for industrial premises the regulations are that work shall not be permitted where there are 50 particles of carbon monoxide per million. Normally in our streets, even in the conditions of a heavy traffic jam, it is a mere 20 p.p.m., which in the view of medical research does not confront us with a medical danger.

LORD SORENSEN

But the jams are becoming increasingly frequent.

LORD CLIFFORD OF CHUDLEIGH

My Lords, is not the answer to the question the use of platinum as a catalyst?

LORD SHEPHERD

My Lords, I think I had better have notice of that question.

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